[Trade] Eichel + 3rd to Vegas for Tuch, Krebs, 1st, 3rd

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

tldr: It wasn’t just about the Sabres liking Krebs. They liked Tuch better than any roster player the Flames were willing to move as well.

That's the story anyways. What we do know is Buffalo had no interest in the Vegas offer until Krebs was added. It is pretty obvious that Krebs was the primary target here, and not Tuch. Tuch was a great add that the Sabres could sell to the fans - local boy who wants to be in Buffalo - but let's also not overlook the fact that he's coming off of shoulder reconstruction surgery. Who knows whether he will return to form. Shoulder surgery is nothing to sniff at and many players have never recovered their games after going under the knife for this procedure. Tuch was a nice add, but there is no way Buffalo targeted him as the primary in this deal. We also have no idea what Buffalo thought of the Calgary offer as we don't know who was in it. We can say it wasn't up to snuff because the offer wasn't accepted. The only thing you can be certain about was Calgary didn't have Peyton Krebs, the player Adams had fallen in love with.

[Iginla]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Linden was a better leader, but Niewendyk was a better player overall IMO.

How could you possibly know which one was a better leader?

I could see Linden being described as a better ambassador for the game, but unless I sat in their dressing room I have no idea who was a better leader.

[Iginla]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

We know the Flames made a pitch around this time. We also know the Flames were never the front-runner. So Adams preferred the Vegas offer even before Krebs was in the package. Which suggests that whatever the Flames had in the [middle-six forward or second pairing d] slot wasn’t as attractive to the Sabres as Tuch. I’m guessing Treliving offered some combination of Monahan/Dube/Valimaki, and Adams preferred Tuch.

tldr: It wasn’t just about the Sabres liking Krebs. They liked Tuch better than any roster player the Flames were willing to move as well.

No, we don't.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Iginla

No, we don't.

Well, it’s been reported. Take that how you will.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'm not sure that was the case. I don't think these players got the recognition they deserved until long after the fact. The Flames were an elite team, but more a sum of their parts than a bunch of star players. Where would you plug Niewendyk and Gilmour on this list?

Lemieux, Gretzky, Yzerman, Hawerchuk, Messier, Olczyk, Lafontaine, Turgeron, Savard, Stastny, Oates, Francis, Sakic, Nichols, Federko, Carson, Damphousse, Propp, Muller, Linden

Those are the 20 best centers from that era IMO, other than the Flames players. Considering the top scorer in the league (Lemieux) scored 199 points, with three others cracking 150 points, you have to be careful what you identify as elite. ……

Scoring totals aren’t the only criteria for “elite”. I’d place Gilmour and Nieuwendyk equal to or above the last 7

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

That's the story anyways. What we do know is Buffalo had no interest in the Vegas offer until Krebs was added. It is pretty obvious that Krebs was the primary target here, and not Tuch. Tuch was a great add that the Sabres could sell to the fans - local boy who wants to be in Buffalo - but let's also not overlook the fact that he's coming off of shoulder reconstruction surgery. Who knows whether he will return to form. Shoulder surgery is nothing to sniff at and many players have never recovered their games after going under the knife for this procedure. Tuch was a nice add, but there is no way Buffalo targeted him as the primary in this deal. We also have no idea what Buffalo thought of the Calgary offer as we don't know who was in it. We can say it wasn't up to snuff because the offer wasn't accepted. The only thing you can be certain about was Calgary didn't have Peyton Krebs, the player Adams had fallen in love with.

hold the phone.

This, from the guy who is critical of the Flames/Treliving for not trading Tkachuk for Tarasenko, Kyrou, and Puchen-something....

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Iginla

No, we don't.

I think we do.

In his sit-down with Friedman yesterday, he was asked if he ever thought he was going somewhere other than Vegas.

He answered that at one point he was close to going to Colorado and at another point Anaheim ( i think it was) was the other destination. Calgary never came out of his mouth and also follows what all of Friedman, Seravalli and LeBrun all reported at different times. Vegas was always the most likely if they included Krebs.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...ement-surgery/

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Man the Fan960 crew is unbearable to listen to in regards to how much they undervalue any Flames asset.

Please explain to me how Peyton Krebs is worth just as much (if not more) as Connor Zary and Jakob Pelletier combined.

Totally agree. I reckon the reason is because of how embarrassing the Edmonton media is when they fall over themselves with overly glowing views on the latest Oiler prospect. We kind of do it on here too. Better to be pessimistic so that all your surprises are to the upside!!

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think we do.

In his sit-down with Friedman yesterday, he was asked if he ever thought he was going somewhere other than Vegas.

He answered that at one point he was close to going to Colorado and at another point Anaheim ( i think it was) was the other destination. Calgary never came out of his mouth and also follows what all of Friedman, Seravalli and LeBrun all reported at different times. Vegas was always the most likely if they included Krebs.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...ement-surgery/

Yeah, and Lebrun also did say that on Wednesday night Vegas believed Eichel was going to Calgary for a while - which could mean that whoever leaked/planted that info on Weekes was likely using Calgary as a tool to extract some additional value out of Vegas.

Baffling to me that Treliving wasn't as in on this as some thought, because the Flames need a player like Eichel. They lack top end talent, they have incredible amounts of money buried in depth positions on mediocre/bad players...Eichel poised a real opportunity to improve the team now and stabilize it for years to come.

I hope this is Treliving's final year as GM.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, and Lebrun also did say that on Wednesday night Vegas believed Eichel was going to Calgary for a while - which could mean that whoever leaked/planted that info on Weekes was likely using Calgary as a tool to extract some additional value out of Vegas.

Baffling to me that Treliving wasn't as in on this as some thought, because the Flames need a player like Eichel. They lack top end talent, they have incredible amounts of money buried in depth positions on mediocre/bad players...Eichel poised a real opportunity to improve the team now and stabilize it for years to come.

I hope this is Treliving's final year as GM.

Only thing that makes sense if the Flames weren't serious outside of Treliving just being bad is that Buffalo didn't like the Flames top prospects or there was huge reservations on Eichel's recovery. Could just Treliving being bad though...

[CliffFletcher]

From Salvian’s article in the Athletic today:

The Flames may have been finalists, and they were consistently in on Eichel talks, but they ultimately wound up more of a distant second — and that place was likely secured once Vegas recently agreed to include Krebs in the return. Tuch, with roots from the area (Syracuse, N.Y.), also was an attractive piece for the Sabres.

Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman went so far as to say that the Flames were “always in, but were never close.” Similarly, I’ve heard from industry sources that, at the time of Tuesday’s ESPN report, the question wasn’t which team would get Eichel; it was when he’d officially be going to Vegas. That didn’t stop the Flames from working on a potential deal as late as Wednesday, but by then, the belief is that details were the hang-up between Vegas and Buffalo — not fundamental pieces.

The Flames were willing to include top prospects and future first-rounders (as well as a roster piece to make the money work) in a trade package, but I don’t believe they had anyone the Sabres wanted more than Krebs and Tuch — except perhaps pieces that were deemed off-limits by the Flames.

https://theathletic.com/2935959/2021...ed-whats-next/

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Only thing that makes sense if the Flames weren't serious outside of Treliving just being bad is that Buffalo didn't like the Flames top prospects or there was huge reservations on Eichel's recovery. Could just Treliving being bad though...

I think the results of his 7+ years of being here show us he's just generally not a very good general manager, but yeah - in this particular instance it could have been that we just didn't have what Buffalo wanted and I'd say a good deal of that can likely be pointed back at Treliving's useless deficit spending over the years. I'll always be baffled that he was willing to spend so much on a poor #4 defenceman, yet is never willing to spend on actual top of the roster players.

As for this Vegas deal, I look at the Pacific division and can't help but think the 1st round is going to be one hell of a mountain to climb for the Flames (...as if it historically isn't anyways). I don't particularly like how we match up against either of those teams come playoff time.

[Goriders]

I think the Flames will do alright minus getting Eichel. They have a good core group and are playing well with the new coaching staff.

The Flames big problem last year was motivation, effort and consistency. I think that is or has been addressed so far. Character players have been added as well.

I like what I’ve seen out of the Flames so far this season. It would have been a shame to have gutted it. Along with future draft prospects. The Flames need those as well as their prospect pool is pretty shallow

[Iginla]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Well, it’s been reported. Take that how you will.

Apologies, my mistake.

[genetic_phreek]

I don't think we'll ever be cup contenders which I've accepted. As a long time Flames fan, I just want two things from this team.

1. Be better than the Oilers.
2. Be entertaining.

Thats it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think the results of his 7+ years of being here show us he's just generally not a very good general manager, but yeah - in this particular instance it could have been that we just didn't have what Buffalo wanted and I'd say a good deal of that can likely be pointed back at Treliving's useless deficit spending over the years. I'll always be baffled that he was willing to spend so much on a poor #4 defenceman, yet is never willing to spend on actual top of the roster players.

I think the whole "He can't close the trade" criticism is overblown though.

I'd much rather he be involved, even it just meant that Vegas had to actually include Krebs in the end because of his offer, than not be involved at all.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think the whole "He can't close the trade" criticism is overblown though.

I'd much rather he be involved, even it just meant that Vegas had to actually include Krebs in the end because of his offer, than not be involved at all.

Right? What’s the alternative - not be involved and let Vegas get Eichel at a lower price?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Apparently Nieuwendyk only qualifies as "legitimate". I guess Eichel would be sub par based on that classification?

What a weird place today.

He already has Joe's whining his way off a team skill down pat.

God Niewencrap should be the most hated Flame ever!!! He is like our Pronger to the Oilers.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

So the Flames have lost out on...

1) Taylor Hall (thinking they had a better offer)
2) Mark Stone (went to bed thinking they had a deal done)
3) Jason Zucker (last minute complications)
4) Nazem Kadri (rejected trade)
5) Jack Eichel (thinking they had a better offer)

Fun :')

Hey at least you were in your own bed for this one.

Unlike the other ones where you were in some strange US airbnb/hotel while jetting all over the US making tons of money at a very young age... lol

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

From Salvian’s article in the Athletic today:

The Flames were willing to include top prospects and future first-rounders (as well as a roster piece to make the money work) in a trade package, but I don’t believe they had anyone the Sabres wanted more than Krebs and Tuch — except perhaps pieces that were deemed off-limits by the Flames.

So what were the off-limits pieces? What should have been the off limits pieces? Only Gaudreau and Lindholm should have been off limits, Tanev as well.