[Rumour] go to the new thread

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

This is exactly it.

Being conservative has gotten us nowhere.

The last big player for player movement was a few years ago with the hurricanes.

Since then we've sat on our picks, accumulated some and outside of dealing the odd third for fringe players we've just drafted and developed.

For a team in a Sutter window we have to make some kind of play if we want to move out of that middle ground, more so now that guys are expiring. Give them a reason to re-sign that says "we're going for it and you have a shot to win here"

This acquisition would semd Tkachuk and Gaudreau that message. Maybe we score a discount.

It takes two to tango. You can't blame the team for not landing a whale when there are so many fishermen in the waters. I think you have to look beyond possible trades and look at how they are drafting and making other moves. I think they are doing everything right in changing their drafting habits and are taking more risk in who they draft. Have to give credit where credit due.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Subtract the risk, and the ask for this guy is much, much, much higher. I think the last time a centre of his calibre was moved in his prime would have been Lindros, and it still cost the Flyers Peter Forsberg PLUS!

The last time a player of this caliber was moved, it was Joe Thornton, and he cost Sturm, Stuart, and Wayne Primeau.

We could’ve had Iggy and Joe if we’d offered up Dion instead of Leopold.

What might have been.

[Robbob]

What is the status with Zary lately? Is he still on the mend from the injury in preseason?

[traptor]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

It's funny to me how many around here view Monahan as a cap dump - especially after a summer where Rasmus Ristolainen with just one year remaining return the 14th overall pick and a future 2nd at his full salary and had multiple teams interested in him at that price.

General managers have a long memory. Sean Monahan is a capable top six center that has had one poor season playing through a publicly known injury.

Do you think Treliving views Monahan as a cap dump? I sure as hell don't, and nor should he. Monahan at 50% retention should easily return Buffalo a 1st round pick (+) by himself.

Yeah, I agree. Monahan is not the most electrifying player these days but I don't think he's in cap dump territory. Monahan has put a 44pt/82pg pace over last year to this year and this is at his worst. His advanced stats have still been good during this time. I think Buffalo could easily flip him for a mid to late first, especially if they're willing to retain salary.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

Am I the only one who thinks the ask for this guy is way too high given the risk?

The *real* package is likely less than what's being rumoured.

It seems too high because it is. Neither Calgary nor Vegas makes those rumoured trades. Buffalo will be taking something less significant if and when the trade goes down. The rumoured packages are in line with buffalo's first negotiation offer back in the summer, essentially. That was their 'ideal' return. But the one you settle on, just like with contracts, is never the package or amount you started your negotiation at.

I think that's what makes some of these 4-6 asset packages people are throwing out there eyerollers cause they haven't accounted for the fact that the market is simply not what Buffalo was commanding at the outset. If they want Eichel dealt, they have to come down to meet these teams. No way around that. And that's why it's taking as long as it is.

These rumours are the same as saying "I suspect the Flames will pay Gaudreau 12MM AAV because that was his initial ask".

That's never how it shakes out. Compromises will be made on both sides. For Calgary or Vegas, that might mean relinquishing conditions on their 1st, for Vegas it might mean taking 3 top assets instead of 4. Or one specific player over another.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

Am I the only one who thinks the ask for this guy is way too high given the risk?

No, I am right there with you.

I can't keep the thought of the worst case scenario out of my mind where Eichel's impact is limited and the team has to rebuild without 2 top prospects or 1st rounders in the next couple of drafts. That would be unbearable. Add to that the possibility of losing Gaudreau for nothing.

People throw out numerical possibilities saying that there is only like a 10% chance that Eichel doesn't come back as the same player, but I have no idea how they even come up with those numbers. The part that that scares me the most is not the chances that he doesn't come back at 100%, but the effects it would have if he didn't.

You aren't just trading assets, but you are trading away the possibility of being able to properly rebuild in the near future if it doesn't work.

But I am also warming up to the idea I guess. I am just so used to things going off the rails. Call me jaded I guess.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The last time a player of this caliber was moved, it was Joe Thornton, and he cost Sturm, Stuart, and Wayne Primeau.

We could’ve had Iggy and Joe if we’d offered up Dion instead of Leopold.

What might have been.

Do you actually have proof for this hypothetical trade that Boston would have accepted?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

You aren't just trading assets, but you are trading away the possibility of being able to properly rebuild in the near future if it doesn't work.

Any thought that the Flames will be rebuilding in the near future is a bit of a delusion. The team is very clearly set on competing now, and the core players are in an age-range where a rebuild makes no sense. Like it or not, the team is looking at a three or four year window, and I don't think an Eichel trade affects that at all.


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Iginla]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Subtract the risk, and the ask for this guy is much, much, much higher. I think the last time a centre of his calibre was moved in his prime would have been Lindros, and it still cost the Flyers Peter Forsberg PLUS!

Sounds like a lot with the benefit of hindsight, but remember that even Quebec preferred the package from the Rangers.

[Vinny01]

The guy who claims to be in the know on HF seems pretty convinced Dube and Monahan are part of the deal so a center in addition to Eichel would be coming back (others assume Eakin)

[djsFlames]

So its possible they've been showcasing Dube at C for Buffalo?

I'm glad mangi has been quiet the last couple while Dube has scored, for the sake of this trade negotiation.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The guy who claims to be in the know on HF seems pretty convinced Dube and Monahan are part of the deal so a center in addition to Eichel would be coming back (others assume Eakin)

Plus the pick I assume?

startthecar.gif

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The guy who claims to be in the know on HF seems pretty convinced Dube and Monahan are part of the deal so a center in addition to Eichel would be coming back (others assume Eakin)

Maybe - or Richardson or Lewis move to the middle. I think Coleman played C at some point. Could call Ruzicka as well.

Buffalo have a lot of guys that play centre, it depends on whether they are part of the future or not.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The guy who claims to be in the know on HF seems pretty convinced Dube and Monahan are part of the deal so a center in addition to Eichel would be coming back (others assume Eakin)

Is this the same guy on HF that knew the deal to Vegas was done last week and they were just figuring out the cap?

[Moneyhands23]

There are no legitimate sources on hfboards.com

[Jiri Hrdina]

Can people link to the specific post on HF so I don't have to wade through the pages of crud over there?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Can people link to the specific post on HF so I don't have to wade through the pages of crud over there?

No. You will wade and you WILL LIKE IT.

[JurassicTunga12]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Can people link to the specific post on HF so I don't have to wade through the pages of crud over there?

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/180918109/

It's bigger than Eichel.
Centre coming back in the deal.

Monahan and Dube go the other way.

[mile]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Is this the same guy on HF that knew the deal to Vegas was done last week and they were just figuring out the cap?

No, his source is with the Flames


If Dube and Monahan go out, it makes sense that they would need a centre coming back as a band-aid 3C (Eakin or Girgensons?) for the time being. Maybe that's why Maloney was watching Sabres games this week.


Would be sad to see Dube leave though, love the chemistry between him him and Mangiapane.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The last time a player of this caliber was moved, it was Joe Thornton, and he cost Sturm, Stuart, and Wayne Primeau.

We could’ve had Iggy and Joe if we’d offered up Dion instead of Leopold.

What might have been.

To a lesser extent, Tyler Seguin might be a decent comparable too:

On July 4, 2013, shortly after the Stanley Cup finals, Seguin was part of a massive seven-player trade that sent him, Peverley, and defenceman Ryan Button to the Dallas Stars in exchange for forward Loui Eriksson and prospects Joe Morrow, Reilly Smith, and Matt Fraser.