2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[GioforPM]

An argument that the Flames were not a better overall team post Hamilton trade strikes me as trying too hard to establish another Treliving mistake. Just look at what assets remain with each team. And while I know a lot of people don’t care, the Flames had their best regular season finish in years with Lindholm and Hanifin. And if it wasn’t for Lindholm, the Neal trade would have had even bigger negative impact.

[Vinny01]

My problem with Treliving is his inability to make those franchise altering moves since that Hurricanes blockbuster. We are a bottom tier free agent destination but all of the moves since have basically been in that market.

2018- huge franchise altering summer. Hurricanes trade, Neal signing, Ryan signing, new coach
2019 - keep the band together re-signing Tkachuk, Bennett, Rittich, Mangiapane while swapping bad money in Neal for Lucic free agent swap getting Talbot and Smith heads north
2020- spending spree with Brodie, Hamonic, and Talbot out Tanev and Markstrom in
2021- Gio lost to Kraken, money spent on Coleman and Zadorov. Bunch of Sutter types because there have been 2 coaching changes since the transformational summer of 2018.

Frolik+Pelletier for Zucker - glad that one fell through
Brodie+Jankowski for Kadri - would have been a great trade but Valimaki tearing his knee would have made losing Brodie really tough. Still a win trade for the Flames

Other rumored deals:
Bennett+Hanifin for signed Hall+Vatanen - likely would have been a bad deal considering the Hall contract would have been pre-Covid
Valimaki+++ for Mark Stone - wouldn’t have made a big difference against the Avs. If he was somehow able to be signed then absolutely it would have been worth it but unless the Flames made huge cap dump moves that offseason it would have been impossible.

It has been clear the core has needed a shake up based on the last 3 years of worsnjng results. It sounds like the only way the Flames could make a change is if they were willing to get fleeced so instead it feels like we will watch core players slowly walk for little to no return and head toward a potential painful rebuild. Here is hoping the combination of players hungry to rebound, Sutter getting full buy in, and a weak division this team is able to go on a run

[ForeverFlameFan]

You don’t get Lindholm if you don’t get Fox.

Calgary traded a top pairing D, a middle 6 winger (I would say Ferland would be labeled as a solid 2nd liner at the time), and an A prospect for a top 6 D (who is now a top line C), and a middle pairing D (who now has the reins to be a #2). All while being cost-controlled.

I know we can be mad for Fox doing what he did, but at least we capitalized on an asset that would decrease in value if we didn’t move him when we did.

The team that got boned was Carolina. Didn’t they get a confirmation from Fox that he would likely sign with them? Now they’ve got nothing from the trade, other than the assets obtained from having to deal Fox.

[Jiri Hrdina]

At the time the contract implications were called out as a big reason for the trade being positive for the Flames. And that's played out exactly that way.

[alan21]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

You don’t get Lindholm if you don’t get Fox.

Calgary traded a top pairing D, a middle 6 winger (I would say Ferland would be labeled as a solid 2nd liner at the time), and an A prospect for a top 6 D (who is now a top line C), and a middle pairing D (who now has the reins to be a #2). All while being cost-controlled.

I know we can be mad for Fox doing what he did, but at least we capitalized on an asset that would decrease in value if we didn’t move him when we did.

The team that got boned was Carolina. Didn’t they get a confirmation from Fox that he would likely sign with them? Now they’ve got nothing from the trade, other than the assets obtained from having to deal Fox.

The asset trail leads to Carolina having Jamieson Rees, Anttoni Honka and Noel Gunier from the trade.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

My problem with Treliving is his inability to make those franchise altering moves since that Hurricanes blockbuster. We are a bottom tier free agent destination but all of the moves since have basically been in that market.

2018- huge franchise altering summer. Hurricanes trade, Neal signing, Ryan signing, new coach
2019 - keep the band together re-signing Tkachuk, Bennett, Rittich, Mangiapane while swapping bad money in Neal for Lucic free agent swap getting Talbot and Smith heads north
2020- spending spree with Brodie, Hamonic, and Talbot out Tanev and Markstrom in
2021- Gio lost to Kraken, money spent on Coleman and Zadorov. Bunch of Sutter types because there have been 2 coaching changes since the transformational summer of 2018.

Frolik+Pelletier for Zucker - glad that one fell through
Brodie+Jankowski for Kadri - would have been a great trade but Valimaki tearing his knee would have made losing Brodie really tough. Still a win trade for the Flames

So in your timeline there have been 4 off seasons. He's made big trades/ signings in two, counting the Hamilton trade. I consider getting the top available goalie and one of the top Dmen in UFA in 2020 a pretty big move.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So in your timeline there have been 4 off seasons. He's made big trades/ signings in two, counting the Hamilton trade. I consider getting the top available goalie and one of the top Dmen in UFA in 2020 a pretty big move.

I did not consider them an upgrade on Talbot and Brodie who were lost for nothing

At least Tanev outperformed expectations, which was nice.

[mdubz]

Can this all go into the "Brad Treliving needs to go" thread? I get excited seeing potential trade rumors and then click into here and see bickering about how good Treliving is as a GM.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So in your timeline there have been 4 off seasons. He's made big trades/ signings in two, counting the Hamilton trade. I consider getting the top available goalie and one of the top Dmen in UFA in 2020 a pretty big move.

Since the 2018 summer he has really only been able to make changes through the free agent market. Big parts of the core he had built here moved on for minimal to nothing (Brodie, Hamonic, Bennett, Gio) and he has brought in new core pieces via free agency (Markstrom, Tanev, Coleman). I think Lucic for Neal worked out really well for the Flames but it doesn’t erase how bad the Neal move turned out to be.

When we talk about the inactivity it is all post 2018 makeover. After his moves that summer I thought Treliving was bordering on being one of the elite GM’s in the league. His inability to do anything outside the free agent market has made me lose confidence

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I did not consider them an upgrade on Talbot and Brodie who were lost for nothing

At least Tanev outperformed expectations, which was nice.

You think Markstrom in and Talbot out is a wash? Sure, Talbot performed well last season, but no one would have said Talbot and Markstrom are equivalent goalies when that trade was made - And I'd still easily have Markstrom over Talbot.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by VilleN

You think Markstrom in and Talbot out a wash? Sure, Talbot performed well last season, but no one would have said Talbot and Markstrom are equivalent goalies when that trade was made - And I'd still easily have Markstrom over Talbot.

That’s fine. Many people here would say that.

Both goalies have over 300 games played. Talbot has a career .915 sv% to Markstrom’s .910

I didn't use the phrase ‘a wash’. I said I didn’t view it as an upgrade.

Markstrom in, Talbot out was, then, at best a wash. You can make the case it was a downgrade, based on both career stats and last season

Or not

And also Markstrom costs 6 vs 3.66

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

That’s fine. Many people here would say that.

Both goalies have over 300 games played. Talbot has a career .915 sv% to Markstrom’s .910

Markstrom in, Talbot out was at best a wash. You can make the case it was a downgrade.

I don’t know if I can agree with this.

But riding Rittich when Talbot was undeniably the guy was one of the worst player management decisions I can recall.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I don’t know if I can agree with this.

But riding Rittich when Talbot was undeniably the guy was one of the worst player management decisions I can recall.

You can of course disagree with my opinion on Talbot vs Markstrom all you want
But I hope you do agree that over a large sample size, .915 is better than .910

The team has made plenty of poor player management decisions

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by mdubz

Can this all go into the "Brad Treliving needs to go" thread? I get excited seeing potential trade rumors and then click into here and see bickering about how good Treliving is as a GM.

When's the last time there was a legit rumor posted in this thread? It's just a bunch of posters comparing their trade proposals.

[dammage79]

There hasn't been any legit rumors for a while. It's kind 9f freaky how quiet it is overall league wide.

But yeah, this threads dead with no new content to chew on. Just and endless circle.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When's the last time there was a legit rumor posted in this thread? It's just a bunch of posters comparing their trade proposals.

What’s a legit rumour? When tv personalities compare their trade proposals?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

What’s a legit rumour? When tv personalities compare their trade proposals?

When it comes from the mouth of a respected journalist that covers the sport.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When it comes from the mouth of a respected journalist that covers the sport.

You understand that 99% of those are formed from following the sport intently, and not actual information that GM’s have shared, right?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

You understand that 99% of those are formed from following the sport intently, and not actual information that GM’s have shared, right?

Whatever you want to call it, it's still crickets from the media and the real insider guys like LeBrun and Johnston or Serivalli.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

You understand that 99% of those are formed from following the sport intently, and not actual information that GM’s have shared, right?

No I don't. Some of them have connections to teams and agents.