[Signing] Flames sign Brad Richardson (1 yr, $800k)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

The Flames now have three 30+ 4th line bums that no other team would want under contract and likely headed to full time roles this year. That in itself is surprising as you wouldn't think the GM of an NHL team would be that dense in this day and age. This move is merely the latest in a list of awful signings that further plug the teams bottom 6 up with limited skill set plugs with next to no future in the league.

Most of these bums will be lucky to provide any scoring, speed and skill to the team, putting even more pressure on the already questionable core talent. Worse yet, they will probably do the usual cycle of having a respectable camp only to dial it back down once they make the team.

No over reaction there! (sigh)

All of these contracts ... Ritchie, Richardson, Lewis are under the bury threshold and can be sent to the AHL with zero cap cost to the team.

They are free depth.

If you want to secure your bottom half of the roster and not hope that kids with middling AHL success are ready you add them. If they've played for the guy behind the bench and he trusts them it's a no brainer.

Making this into any more than that is just silly in my opinion. I guess if you want to see something and you squint really really hard you're happy to not be happy.

[868904]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

No, it means that prospects make mistakes as they adjust to the NHL. We all learn from making mistakes. It’s an endless debate of what’s better for the prospect - first line in the AHL, vs 4th line in the NHL.

For example, with someone like Matthew Phillips. I doubt he is going to take the next step without seeing some NHL games. He has seen and done everything in the AHL level. That said, I’m sure there are going to be growing pains. It all comes down to what happens if the veteran and the prospect are roughly the same level. The prospect is better in flashes, but doesn’t have the consistency. I personally would love to have at least one roster spot a year for a (new) prospect to lose.

As for Richardson, it’s a depth signing. He can sit, be your 12/13th forward. Nothing to complain about really. I guess him and Lewis are the gate keepers. Hopefully they would be able to share their experience and succeed under Sutter.

He really hasn't.

I know he gets a lot of mention on this forum, but he hasn't really "seen and done everything in the AHL level".

He hasn't even done what Andrew Mangiapane and Dillon Dube did before him. Both of who "dominated" with their on ice play AND had the production to show for it.

The only person here who sees Phillips play regularly and "dominate" on the ice at the AHL level is Scorp, so we have to take his word for it, but the production isn't there. You can blame his teammates all you want, but if you can't carry your team in the AHL, then I'm going to say you aren't quite ready yet.

Mangiapane and Dube kicked that door down and forced the Flames to call them up for good. Phillips hasn't done that yet, he might this season, but he hasn't yet so there's no problem with signing some veterans who you KNOW can play in the NHL.

The other point is that Phillips isn't going to play that specific role that guys like Lewis and Richardson and Ritchie or Pitlick are signed to do. Some of you have this complete failure to understand roles. Phillips needs to beat out Mangiapane, Dube, Coleman, Gaudreau and Tkachuk for a spot because that's what his skillset is suited for. Good luck!

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^ Good for Pronman. Aside from that, who really cares?

So outside of the CP "experts" who disagrees with Pronman? Who is providing the feeling that the Flames are just needing minor adjustments and should be re-tooling and not needing a rebuild?

Find me someone outside of the Flames inner circle who thinks that Treliving is doing a great job.

Maybe there is some JFresh comments on how ready the Flames are to move into the league top 8-10 teams. I just can't seem to find it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So outside of the CP "experts" who disagrees with Pronman? Who is providing the feeling that the Flames are just needing minor adjustments and should be re-tooling and not needing a rebuild?

Find me someone outside of the Flames inner circle who thinks that Treliving is doing a great job.

Maybe there is some JFresh comments on how ready the Flames are to move into the league top 8-10 teams. I just can't seem to find it.

Who cares who agrees or disagrees? And what does this have to do with rebuilding versus retooling (and I can provide quite a few posters who take the latter view).

The point is, Pronman is a single pundit who has particular baises (small/shifty players) and whose past rankings have been pretty hit and miss once you get past blue chippers.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So outside of the CP "experts" who disagrees with Pronman? Who is providing the feeling that the Flames are just needing minor adjustments and should be re-tooling and not needing a rebuild?

Find me someone outside of the Flames inner circle who thinks that Treliving is doing a great job.

Maybe there is some JFresh comments on how ready the Flames are to move into the league top 8-10 teams. I just can't seem to find it.

Apple meet orange

You just flipped the conversation from young cores and an empty system to the overall performance of the GM and the trajectory of the franchise.

Not the same argument.

Treliving bet on Monahan and Gaudreau as 2/3 of a top line. It didn't work out. He expended picks to support that bet and it has cost the team in the pipeline for sure.

But the actual draft record has been above average over Treliving's years, and you don't need to use a CP expert to see those that see that as fact.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1421117051733610496

[Calgary4LIfe]

I didn't read the entire thread, and I am guessing that I am in the minority here - but good signing.



Zero risk, and another player that can come in and give this team strong 4th line minutes in a shut-down role.


In the last 10 seasons I think this team has had a consistently good 4th line for maybe a couple of those. Having a 4th line that you can trust in any situation and to provide you minutes where they help in shutting down an opponent is huge.



There have been times in the last few seasons where the #1 line got what I thought was a favourable match-up against the 4th line, only to get their butts handed to them. That's what I am hoping the Flames will be able to do this year.


Flames are bigger this year, they are faster this year, and they appear on paper (at least at forward) to be WAY better defensively than last year, while being at least just as good offensively. Defence (to me) is question mark that I hope works out, but I am way more confident that this group of forwards will make a difference this season.



I think this is another signing that further tilts the Flames into one of the best defensive teams in the NHL. Under Sutter, they will also be one of the hardest-working teams too. Richardson is a good defensive player with tonnes of character, and who is also good at faceoffs - so he can take key draws in the defensive zone when necessary. Makes Sutter's job much easier in line matching.


I like it. If it doesn't work out and his legs aren't there any longer, then you can just bury his salary. There are going to be injuries this season, and other people are going to get their chances. Look at the Kings under Sutter and tell me he didn't promote young talent. Heck, he did that here in Calgary. If Ruzicka and Gawdin and whomever else impresses at training camp, then some of these signings sit or ply their trade for the Heat instead.



If it works out and I am right = Flames are better
If it doesn't, they sit and the kids play


I like acquiring players that actually fit their new identity.

[TheIronMaiden]

IMO phillips at best is Austin Czarnik, an undersized offense first forward who would need powerplay time and top 6 minutes to produce at a comparable pace to their AHL stint.

Trouble with these players is they bring nothing else, they either need to score like top NHL talent or they should not play. To make the NHL you need to be an excellent player away from the puck, fore and back checking effectively, killing penalties, bringing physicality. I just don't see Phillips fitting into a bottom six.

That said, I'd love to be wrong, the Flames could really use a big push from him, Gawdin, and Ruzicka. Until they kick down the door, it is prudent to hedge their bottom six bets with veteran talent.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So outside of the CP "experts" who disagrees with Pronman? Who is providing the feeling that the Flames are just needing minor adjustments and should be re-tooling and not needing a rebuild?

Find me someone outside of the Flames inner circle who thinks that Treliving is doing a great job.

Maybe there is some JFresh comments on how ready the Flames are to move into the league top 8-10 teams. I just can't seem to find it.

Ricardo, just wanted to thank you for bringing all of us here down to Earth. You have, once again, made sure we realize our team is no good, our prospects are no good, and our GM is no good.

Thanks man. We clearly don’t have enough of those posts or threads on here daily. I guess we’re all too busy waving our pom poms to see the issues as clearly as you do.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Ricardo, just wanted to thank you for bringing all of us here down to Earth. You have, once again, made sure we realize our team is no good, our prospects are no good, and our GM is no good.

Thanks man. We clearly don’t have enough of those posts or threads on here daily. I guess we’re all too busy waving our pom poms to see the issues as clearly as you do.

You forgot to also thank him for the ongoing undertone and suggestion that we are all idiots.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I didn't read the entire thread, and I am guessing that I am in the minority here - but good signing.



Zero risk, and another player that can come in and give this team strong 4th line minutes in a shut-down role.


In the last 10 seasons I think this team has had a consistently good 4th line for maybe a couple of those. Having a 4th line that you can trust in any situation and to provide you minutes where they help in shutting down an opponent is huge.



There have been times in the last few seasons where the #1 line got what I thought was a favourable match-up against the 4th line, only to get their butts handed to them. That's what I am hoping the Flames will be able to do this year.


Flames are bigger this year, they are faster this year, and they appear on paper (at least at forward) to be WAY better defensively than last year, while being at least just as good offensively. Defence (to me) is question mark that I hope works out, but I am way more confident that this group of forwards will make a difference this season.



I think this is another signing that further tilts the Flames into one of the best defensive teams in the NHL. Under Sutter, they will also be one of the hardest-working teams too. Richardson is a good defensive player with tonnes of character, and who is also good at faceoffs - so he can take key draws in the defensive zone when necessary. Makes Sutter's job much easier in line matching.


I like it. If it doesn't work out and his legs aren't there any longer, then you can just bury his salary. There are going to be injuries this season, and other people are going to get their chances. Look at the Kings under Sutter and tell me he didn't promote young talent. Heck, he did that here in Calgary. If Ruzicka and Gawdin and whomever else impresses at training camp, then some of these signings sit or ply their trade for the Heat instead.



If it works out and I am right = Flames are better
If it doesn't, they sit and the kids play


I like acquiring players that actually fit their new identity.

Best post in this thread. Thank you.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So outside of the CP "experts" who disagrees with Pronman? Who is providing the feeling that the Flames are just needing minor adjustments and should be re-tooling and not needing a rebuild?

Find me someone outside of the Flames inner circle who thinks that Treliving is doing a great job.

Maybe there is some JFresh comments on how ready the Flames are to move into the league top 8-10 teams. I just can't seem to find it.

Most fans would prefer a rebuild and realize the GM has made a lot of mistakes. I don't see any threads here where it's been stated the Flames are doing the right thing and are cup contenders. We know it's a lunch bucket team that will go as far as Darryl Sutter can squeeze out of them. That's just the reality of the situation and all we can do as fans is watch the games and hope for the best. It seems you are going out of your way to try and prove to the forum that the Flames aren't good when many of us already know that. I think posters like Bingo prefer to take the glass half full approach and not assume the worst and that seems to bother you?

[calumniate]

I'm actually ok with this signing as it seems to fill a need. What I haven't understood with Tre in the past is how he flooded our d-corps with 'depth', to the point that it impeded some prospects from actually playing. Seems like that's been kept more in check this year.

As soon as I write this, Tre will probably muddy the waters again lol but I'd say it's not so bad at this point. If you're better than Brad Richardson, I'm sure you'll get a crack at the team. If not, there's no reason to believe he won't be serviceable on the 4th line

[Sec214]

Everyone up in arms over a rotating 13th Forward.

If the Kids pass him, He's waiver Fodder.

[Icantwhisper]

Is anyone else concerned that Sutter's "style" might not fit the way the NHL is moving?
Speed and youth are the way most teams are playing and I don't know that his success 8-10 years ago translates well to today.
I realize that teams are copy cats and whatever wins is the new standard but the league is getting younger and faster, not as optimistic as some I guess.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by 868904

He really hasn't.

I know he gets a lot of mention on this forum, but he hasn't really "seen and done everything in the AHL level".

He hasn't even done what Andrew Mangiapane and Dillon Dube did before him. Both of who "dominated" with their on ice play AND had the production to show for it.

The only person here who sees Phillips play regularly and "dominate" on the ice at the AHL level is Scorp, so we have to take his word for it, but the production isn't there. You can blame his teammates all you want, but if you can't carry your team in the AHL, then I'm going to say you aren't quite ready yet.

Mangiapane and Dube kicked that door down and forced the Flames to call them up for good. Phillips hasn't done that yet, he might this season, but he hasn't yet so there's no problem with signing some veterans who you KNOW can play in the NHL.

The other point is that Phillips isn't going to play that specific role that guys like Lewis and Richardson and Ritchie or Pitlick are signed to do. Some of you have this complete failure to understand roles. Phillips needs to beat out Mangiapane, Dube, Coleman, Gaudreau and Tkachuk for a spot because that's what his skillset is suited for. Good luck!

You really missed my point on that one. I was just using Phillips as an example. I am actually not against the signing of those vets. That's why I mentioned that if a vet and a prospect seem to be roughly the same level out of camp I prefer to give the prospect the chance. Also, I'm pretty sure, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but both Phillips and Gawdin are waiver eligible. I would like the Flames to see what they have in those guys before simply waiving them for a 35 year old vet. Unless of course there is a noticeable difference in play in favor of the vet.

As for roles, Mangiapane and Dube were not meant for 4th line duty either. However, Mangiapane did great with Hathaway and Ryan. Dube did great with Bennett and Lucic(arguably third line). You don't have to have a grinder only 4th line.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by calumniate

I'm actually ok with this signing as it seems to fill a need. What I haven't understood with Tre in the past is how he flooded our d-corps with 'depth', to the point that it impeded some prospects from actually playing. Seems like that's been kept more in check this year.

As soon as I write this, Tre will probably muddy the waters again lol but I'd say it's not so bad at this point. If you're better than Brad Richardson, I'm sure you'll get a crack at the team. If not, there's no reason to believe he won't be serviceable on the 4th line

Who would they be, I can't seem to recall who didn't get to play?

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

Is anyone else concerned that Sutter's "style" might not fit the way the NHL is moving?
Speed and youth are the way most teams are playing and I don't know that his success 8-10 years ago translates well to today.
I realize that teams are copy cats and whatever wins is the new standard but the league is getting younger and faster, not as optimistic as some I guess.

This is not something Sutter coaches. Sutter has repeatedly emphasized that he likes his team to play with pace, which he noted the Flames could not sustain due to reasons he only knows (my guess is they weren't conditioned with pace in mind).

The Flames played with notably faster pace after Sutter took over from Ward.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

This is not something Sutter coaches. Sutter has repeatedly emphasized that he likes his team to play with pace, which he noted the Flames could not sustain due to reasons he only knows (my guess is they weren't conditioned with pace in mind).

The Flames played with notably faster pace after Sutter took over from Ward.

Sutter likes speed well enough. He went out and got Donovan right away, he signed Amonte, etc.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sutter likes speed well enough. He went out and got Donovan right away, he signed Amonte, etc.

Let's also not forget that Sutter has had time after being fired from the Kings to evaluate the way that the game has changed and progressed. It's not like he just stopped tuning into hockey and did not have time to re-evaluate his approach to coaching.


I recall many people wondering if Sutter was done after his stint with the Flames. He took some time off, re-evaluated, and joined a team of under-achievers that he thought he could squeeze more out of.

I won't pretend to think that Sutter is guaranteed to repeat his success with the Kings again with the Flames. That would be welcome but shocking. However, it is a large assumption to believe that someone as intelligent about the game as Sutter hasn't reconsidered some previously held opinions on personnel or utilization based on the speed of the game, the way it is called, player training, etc. I recall many post-game conferences where he mentioned about there being limited time mid-season to implement all the changes he wanted.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Who would they be, I can't seem to recall who didn't get to play?

I'm just talking about players that muddied the waters, not necessarily who they were taking spots from. Davidson, Petrovic, Grossman, Yelesin. Yuck