If Monahan is that good, Treliving should be able to get something good for him
Maybe when he's had the better part of a season under his belt playing without injury.
Just as it is with property, the way to increase your assets is to buy low and sell high. Trading Monahan now would be selling at the low point of his value.
If Monahan is that good, Treliving should be able to get something good for him
I am comparing two players...one has been far better at the NHL level. Certain posters just think every Flames player is terrible because the team hasn't won...News flash most of the league hasn't won.
The point is you don't give away a 26 year old player because he had one poor year.
and has had 4 seasons better than PLD's best season
Monahan has been by far the better NHLer
Spezza also had 4 seasons better than Monahan's best season! Quick lets make the trade one for one. Seriously though, you're only counting points. I think PLD's season two years ago(2019-20), where he had 10pts in 10 playoff games was not too bad. I also said that he is a potential buy low candidate, and Monahan was just an example because I don't know what WPG wants.
I think the guy has the potential of becoming a good number 1 center or in the worst case scenario you will end up with a number 2 center. Trading Monahan for him could be a lateral move, but I don't see there being much of a downgrade. At this point I prefer a lateral move to no moves at all before training camp starts.
Some analytics before he was traded for Laine(couldn't find any more recent ones):
I like Mony, but I wouldn't hesitate to trade him for Dubois, but as was stated, Winnipeg wouldn't do it. PLD is younger, bigger, meaner, faster, and still has a world of potential. He can drive play, and looks better defensively-Sutter would love him, and we would continue to add players that are harder to play against. Some forget that PLD played mostly C with Columbus....
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sandman For This Useful Post:
I am comparing two players...one has been far better at the NHL level. Certain posters just think every Flames player is terrible because the team hasn't won...News flash most of the league hasn't won.
The point is you don't give away a 26 year old player because he had one poor year.
Monahan hasn’t been good for 2.5 years
But I agreed his value is too low to trade right now
Can only hope he bounces back
Spezza also had 4 seasons better than Monahan's best season! Quick lets make the trade one for one. Seriously though, you're only counting points. I think PLD's season two years ago(2019-20), where he had 10pts in 10 playoff games was not too bad. I also said that he is a potential buy low candidate, and Monahan was just an example because I don't know what WPG wants.
I think the guy has the potential of becoming a good number 1 center or in the worst case scenario you will end up with a number 2 center. Trading Monahan for him could be a lateral move, but I don't see there being much of a downgrade. At this point I prefer a lateral move to no moves at all before training camp starts.
Some analytics before he was traded for Laine(couldn't find any more recent ones):
Spezza is 38 the players I was comparing are within a couple years of each other
Monahan has an 82 point season 2 years ago...little different. PLD hasn't come within 20 points of Monahan's best season
Monahan has 21 points in 30 playoff games
PLD has 22 points in 33 playoff games
So yeah that argument doesn't really hold up either
I wouldn't do that deal let alone think it was some kinda steal for the Flames.
The comments here just show how biased against Monahan some fans have become like the anti-homer...Chirst Eichel hasn't even had a better season than Monahan
__________________
GFG
Last edited by dino7c; 08-27-2021 at 11:28 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to dino7c For This Useful Post:
Didn’t Sutter comment at one point when he was coaching LA that Monahan was the most underrated C in the Pacific (or something along those lines)?
Hopefully he’s healthy this year because I think that’s been the biggest reason for his trend downward. He seems to be always playing hurt and the news never comes out until after the season’s over.
Guy’s a pure sniper, has gotten way too much heat on this board
Spezza is 38 the players I was comparing are within a couple years of each other
Monahan has an 82 point season 2 years ago...little different
Monahan has 21 points in 30 playoff games
PLD has 22 points in 33 playoff games
So yeah that argument doesn't really hold up either
Look the Spezza part was an obvious exaggeration. Do I need to use green text?
I'm looking at what both players have done lately. I see potential for PLD to be a beast of a player. You obviously see things differently. I think that PLD would slot a lot better for the Flames. He could give them a center that would bull/power his way to the net. He is 6'3" 220lbs, and he is rather quick. At least he seemed to be getting a lot more breakaways than Monahan in the last 2 years.
I also didn't say he was a lot better than Monahan in the playoffs, the argument was that his season as a whole was not too bad. You were judging performances on a season basis. In my opinion that season and the 2018-19 season were on par with Monahan's better seasons. They don't quite match up to Monahan's career year, but do you see Monahan hitting those totals again? I think that's the culprit in us having a different opinions on the matter. I don't see Monahan hitting 70pts again, let alone 80. In fact, I think he would be hard pressed to hit 60pts on a line away from Gaudreau. I really hope he proves me wrong on that one.
Look the Spezza part was an obvious exaggeration. Do I need to use green text?
I'm looking at what both players have done lately. I see potential for PLD to be a beast of a player. You obviously see things differently. I think that PLD would slot a lot better for the Flames. He could give them a center that would bull/power his way to the net. He is 6'3" 220lbs, and he is rather quick. At least he seemed to be getting a lot more breakaways than Monahan in the last 2 years.
I also didn't say he was a lot better than Monahan in the playoffs, the argument was that his season as a whole was not too bad. You were judging performances on a season basis. In my opinion that season and the 2018-19 season were on par with Monahan's better seasons. They don't quite match up to Monahan's career year, but do you see Monahan hitting those totals again? I think that's the culprit in us having a different opinions on the matter. I don't see Monahan hitting 70pts again, let alone 80. In fact, I think he would be hard pressed to hit 60pts on a line away from Gaudreau. I really hope he proves me wrong on that one.
I mean that is the exact season Monahan hit 82 points
Monahan has better numbers in the most recent season too
PLD has a career high of 62 and has never even been above 50 in any other season. Yet it is a knock on Monahan he might not even hit 60?
439 in 591
Vs.
179 in 280
Only on CP would fans think one guy with worse numbers is far better and no way we could have the fortune of such an amazing trade. I would trade Monahan in the right deal but that is not it...Flames need more offence not less.
People can disagree but to act like I'm the homer when the stats heavily favor Monahan seems silly to me. Most fan bases over rate but not here.
__________________
GFG
Last edited by dino7c; 08-28-2021 at 12:06 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to dino7c For This Useful Post:
Maybe when he's had the better part of a season under his belt playing without injury.
Just as it is with property, the way to increase your assets is to buy low and sell high. Trading Monahan now would be selling at the low point of his value.
But nobody ever wants to trade a player when they’re playing well. Just look at how fans here changed their tune on trading Gaudreau.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
I like Monahan, but I trade him straight across for Dubois every day of the week. There’s no way that deal was available to the Flames. The discussion at the time was around Anderson.
Dubois is 3 years younger, RFA after this deal, and can actually drive play. Counting stats aren’t everything. Contract status alone is enough of a reason to make that trade.
Not to mention when Monahan was moved away from Gaudreau he sunk while Gaudreau flourished. Monahan gets buried more often than not when playing at the top of the line up.
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to bax For This Useful Post:
I dont think anyone would fault Dubois for having a down year: leaves an bad situation in Columbus, has to quarantine for 2 weeks in a hotel room, gets injured 2 games into return to play and never regained his form. I think you give him a full season under more normal circumstances to see if he comes back to form. I have no idea why anyone would think the Jets would trade him.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to PegCityFlamesFan For This Useful Post:
I mean that is the exact season Monahan hit 82 points
Monahan has better numbers in the most recent season too
PLD has a career high of 62 and has never even been above 50 in any other season. Yet it is a knock on Monahan he might not even hit 60?
439 in 591
Vs.
179 in 280
Only on CP would fans think one guy with worse numbers is far better and no way we could have the fortune of such an amazing trade. I would trade Monahan in the right deal but that is not it...Flames need more offence not less.
People can disagree but to act like I'm the homer when the stats heavily favor Monahan seems silly to me. Most fan bases over rate but not here.
This obsession with PPG. Such an oversimplification, because why factor in the downward trends in Monahan’s 5-on-5 production, his injury history, his defensive deficiencies and overall inability to drive offense despite ample ice time?
Derrick Brassard is a career .56 PPG player to Blake Coleman’s .42. Only 3 years older too. Maybe we should have signed him and saved ourselves $4M in cap space!
Last edited by howard_the_duck; 08-28-2021 at 09:05 AM.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to howard_the_duck For This Useful Post:
This obsession with PPG. Such an oversimplification, because why factor in the downward trends in Monahan’s 5-on-5 production, his injury history, his defensive deficiencies and overall inability to drive offense despite ample ice time?
Derrick Brassard is a career .56 PPG player to Blake Coleman’s .42. Only 3 years older too. Maybe we should have signed him and saved ourselves $4M in cap space!
Its fair, but also not. Monahan is top 20 in goal scoring and top 30 in points among Cs excluding his rookie season. He has certainly seen regression over the past two seasons, but given he is 26 chances are we see him return back to his normal numbers. Also interesting, Dubois has regressed over the past two seasons as well.
I agree that the offense isn't the only factor. But PLD isn't a defensive dynamo and has generally been deployed as an offensive player. I am not sure what your trying to solve by swapping him with Monahan.
I am fine with trading Monahan for the right price. But PLD isn't it. Better to see how Monahan responds under Sutter. I liked what I was seeing out of Monahan after Sutter arrived. He was playing much better overall hockey, despite the injury. He could be good this season.
I mean that is the exact season Monahan hit 82 points
Monahan has better numbers in the most recent season too
PLD has a career high of 62 and has never even been above 50 in any other season. Yet it is a knock on Monahan he might not even hit 60?
439 in 591
Vs.
179 in 280
Only on CP would fans think one guy with worse numbers is far better and no way we could have the fortune of such an amazing trade. I would trade Monahan in the right deal but that is not it...Flames need more offence not less.
People can disagree but to act like I'm the homer when the stats heavily favor Monahan seems silly to me. Most fan bases over rate but not here.
Are you being a devil's advocate, or would you actually say no to a Monahan-Dubois trade?
The hip injury has been bothering Monahan for “20-some games,” according to head coach Darryl Sutter.
“He did battle through it. He’s done it not for two or three games, he’s done it for the last 20 games,” Sutter said.
“It tells you about his character and desire and give-you-what-he’s-got. I’ve said that all along about him, Sean tried to do everything I asked him to do and he did it with pain. I give him a lot of credit.”
PLD:
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DeluxeMoustache For This Useful Post:
We don’t need to worry about it anyways because there is a 0% chance Winnipeg would ever make that deal. PLD’s value far exceeds Monahan’s unfortunately.
