Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure they allowed it at all.

The changes just didn't happen.

From there it's up to you.

Treliving is inept?
Treliving is too cautious?
Treliving is too reckless?
The offers weren't good enough?
Tough market with covid?
#### happens?
Trump's fault?

But we certainly heard Gaudreau and Monahan's names in the trade market last off season, and Monahan again this off season.

Unless you think changes should have been made after the Colorado playoff series, after a season finishing second overall.

Personally, I think its "Treliving over valuating his players" which equals "The offers weren't good enough"

He for sure should have made changes to the core after the Avalanche series...

He is cautious for sure, which is not a bad thing....

[Mr.Coffee]

This has for sure been the worst offseason as a Flames fan I can remember. Just awful.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This has for sure been the worst offseason as a Flames fan I can remember. Just awful.

So you weren't a fan in or you've forgotten the 90s.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Hmmm the Colorado Model you say...

the one where they didn't quite have enough talent in their initial rebuild, so they traded the pieces of that rebuild (Duchene, Stastny) for an on the fly rebuild where they drafted 1st and 4th overall and were basement dwellers for several years?

Yea, I think we should follow that model too.

I disagree with that interpretation of Colorado's rebuild. They were basement dwellers for longer than they intended to, but not because they planned it that way. They never intended to be bad for that long.

They traded away their 2012, first round pick for Varlamov to make it work....it didn't.

After 2012/13, they genuinely tried to succeed again. Made the playoffs one year. New coaching staff. Made the Playoffs in 2013/14...but then things fell apart again. They then became a perennial playoff team immediately after trading Duchene. So it was not a case of them trading all of their good players and then tanking purposely.

The Avs were genuinely trying to succeed and unsuccessful in doing so until the got the right formula.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by blankall

I disagree with that interpretation of Colorado's rebuild. They were basement dwellers for longer than they intended to, but not because they planned it that way. They never intended to be bad for that long.

They traded away their 2012, first round pick for Varlamov to make it work....it didn't.

After 2012/13, they genuinely tried to succeed again. Made the playoffs one year. New coaching staff. Made the Playoffs in 2013/14...but then things fell apart again. They then became a perennial playoff team immediately after trading Duchene. So it was not a case of them trading all of their good players and then tanking purposely.

The Avs were genuinely trying to succeed and unsuccessful in doing so until the got the right formula.

You think that them trading a 1st a decade ago for a goalie is evidence that they attempted to compete while they finished out of the playoffs 4 of the next 5 seasons (Drafting top 5 twice and top 10 4 times?)

Are there even any players on the Colorado roster left over from the 2012 season?

You're grasping here. This was a team that traded good players away and played through growing pains.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This has for sure been the worst offseason as a Flames fan I can remember. Just awful.

Oooo cool, what's the measure?

Looking back, 2019, 2017, 2016, 2014, 2013 all look worse from a UFA perspective for signings between July 1 and the end of August and for any significant trades.

I stopped going back at 2013 because I didn't know how you were measuring it, but let me in, give me the details, let me play!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by flambers

Personally, I think its "Treliving over valuating his players" which equals "The offers weren't good enough"

He for sure should have made changes to the core after the Avalanche series...

He is cautious for sure, which is not a bad thing....

Honestly I can't say. That's certainly another explanation.

But without knowing what he turned down we just can't know.

I certainly didn't think Josh Anderson for Sean Monahan made a lot of sense without hearing other pieces coming from Columbus at the time. There was talk about a goalie too ... but that just felt like a good thing to turn down.

But the only thing worse than no activity is bad activity.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Trade 1

Tkachuk, Kylington to STL for Parayko, Kyrou, Neighbors

Trade 2

Monahan, (BUF picks any TWO of Coronato, Zary, Pelletier, Neighbors), 2022 1st to BUF for Eichel w/ 20% retention

Sign Zadorov 4 x 4 million
Sign Dube & Valimaki 1 x 950k

Extend Gaudreau & Parayko prior to camp (ASAP)


Gaudreau - Eichel - Kyrou
Mangiapane - Lindholm - Coleman
Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
Lucic - Ruzicka - Lewis

Phillips, Ritchie

Hanifin - Parayko
Zadarov - Tanev
Valimaki - Andersson

Mackey

Markstrom
Vladar


$1.6 million cap space left

Don't mind this at all. Couple things though:

I doubt Dube and Valimaki sign at that low. Not much more but closer to 1.2 per year, but still room to make it work.

I would push for a 1st in the Tkachuk trade along with the other pieces. They want another Tkachuk in a Blues jersey bad and he'll re-sign there.

I would include a second 1st in the Eichel trade, and keep Coronato and Pelletier out of the trade talks. Coronato especially could be a stud RW we've been looking for. To Buf: Monahan, Zary, 2022 1st, 2023 1st, 2022 2nd (acquired from Florida, good chance it becomes a late 2nd).

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You think that them trading a 1st a decade ago for a goalie is evidence that they attempted to compete while they finished out of the playoffs 4 of the next 5 seasons (Drafting top 5 twice and top 10 4 times?)

Are there even any players on the Colorado roster left over from the 2012 season?

You're grasping here. This was a team that traded good players away and played through growing pains.

Yes. But the timing doesn't fit your narrative in any way. Colorado immediately got good....after they traded away the good players. It wasn't a case of trade good players, be basement dwellers for many years, then get good. It would be like the Flames trading Gaudreau for a pick and then making the playoffs for the next 8 years in a row. Not at all what the burn it down crowd is pushing for.

Trading Gaudreau may actually be our fate (and the Flames should recover as much from that as possible if it's going to happen), but burning it down just because is not a good plan.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You think that them trading a 1st a decade ago for a goalie is evidence that they attempted to compete while they finished out of the playoffs 4 of the next 5 seasons (Drafting top 5 twice and top 10 4 times?)

Are there even any players on the Colorado roster left over from the 2012 season?

You're grasping here. This was a team that traded good players away and played through growing pains.

They sure didn't sign Iginla to a three-year contract in 2014 with a promise of tanking for three seasons. They also got Briere and Stuart that summer.

Things did not go according to plan for the Avs. In the end, it might work out for them, but it definitely wasn't what they were expecting to happen.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This has for sure been the worst offseason as a Flames fan I can remember. Just awful.

Really?



Neal.


Hamonic.


Brouwer/Elliott.


What move(s) this off-season will have lasting detrimental impacts as above? What moves in those off-seasons counterbalance those ones to make them better than this year?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Those off-seasons were excited - including the Neal one.
The signing of a high potential young player ready to pop in Czarnik.
The signing of a good depth player in Ryan
And then a big name free agent picking Calgary in Neal.
Woot!

Point being - fun off-seasons don't always lead to good seasons.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by flambers

Personally, I think its "Treliving over valuating his players" which equals "The offers weren't good enough"

He for sure should have made changes to the core after the Avalanche series...

He is cautious for sure, which is not a bad thing....

I don't mind if it's the case of him overvaluing his players. Underselling on a shallow upper end talent pool would be a disaster. He's obviously undervalued his draft picks in the past (and arguably still does today). While I'm not a Treliving fan after the Colorado loss, I'd rather this mediocrity than dealing for a star by giving the prospects and high draft picks which he's done in the past. Especially right now where we're shallow on high end talent, high end prospects, and salary is tied up on all four lines. I do believe their best choice would be to build through the draft and my #1 choice would be to get the equivalent of 2 1sts from a team for Monahan. I think it's entirely possible from a team like Carolina.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't mind if it's the case of him overvaluing his players. Underselling on a shallow upper end talent pool would be a disaster. He's obviously undervalued his draft picks in the past (and arguably still does today). While I'm not a Treliving fan after the Colorado loss, I'd rather this mediocrity than dealing for a star by giving the prospects and high draft picks which he's done in the past. Especially right now where we're shallow on high end talent, high end prospects, and salary is tied up on all four lines. I do believe their best choice would be to build through the draft and my #1 choice would be to get the equivalent of 2 1sts from a team for Monahan. I think it's entirely possible from a team like Carolina.

Monny will need to prove himself healthy and productive to be worth much.

Assuming he does, I doubt he would bring in two first round picks with his contract being less than two years at that time. Cap is simply too hard to move theses days.

Fkeury with only one year left was worth a negative 2 nd round pick.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by flambers

Personally, I think its "Treliving over valuating his players" which equals "The offers weren't good enough"

He for sure should have made changes to the core after the Avalanche series...

He is cautious for sure, which is not a bad thing....

They were 2nd overall. Yes, the series against the Avs did not go well, but you don't change the core (that you just put together that year) because of one, 5-game series.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They were 2nd overall. Yes, the series against the Avs did not go well, but you don't change the core (that you just put together that year) because of one, 5-game series.

Exactly. That was the year that Columbus swept first place Tampa as well

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Those off-seasons were excited - including the Neal one.
The signing of a high potential young player ready to pop in Czarnik.
The signing of a good depth player in Ryan
And then a big name free agent picking Calgary in Neal.
Woot!

Point being - fun off-seasons don't always lead to good seasons.

Most people were more likely thinking wtf around Ryan.

I liked him in the end, but it took a while off the hop.

There was optimism around Czarnik hoping he could be a steal but alas hoping we had the smartest guy didn’t pay off

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Those off-seasons were excited - including the Neal one.
The signing of a high potential young player ready to pop in Czarnik.
The signing of a good depth player in Ryan
And then a big name free agent picking Calgary in Neal.
Woot!

Point being - fun off-seasons don't always lead to good seasons.

You are not really making that point with your example. The Flames went from a playoff miss and 85pts to 2nd overall and 107pts after that very exciting offseason. Treliving also actually executed a big trade which he has not been able to do since

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Trade 1

Tkachuk, Kylington to STL for Parayko, Kyrou, Neighbors

Trade 2

Monahan, (BUF picks any TWO of Coronato, Zary, Pelletier, Neighbors), 2022 1st to BUF for Eichel w/ 20% retention

Sign Zadorov 4 x 4 million
Sign Dube & Valimaki 1 x 950k

Extend Gaudreau & Parayko prior to camp (ASAP)


Gaudreau - Eichel - Kyrou
Mangiapane - Lindholm - Coleman
Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
Lucic - Ruzicka - Lewis

Phillips, Ritchie

Hanifin - Parayko
Zadarov - Tanev
Valimaki - Andersson

Mackey

Markstrom
Vladar


$1.6 million cap space left

I mostly like it. Another poster a few days ago suggested including Andersson in a deal with St. Louis, and I liked that idea a lot. Andersson was really bad last year (and I also greatly disliked the stealing the puck incident). He might get back on the trajectory he was on prior to last year... but he might not as well. Having a guy make that much on the 3rd pairing in your lineup isn't great, so if the Flames can get value for him in a trade that could be excellent.

[mile]

Haven't seen any rumours in this thread in a while.

It's not much, but Mike Futa did briefly mention today on Tim & Friends that Anaheim and Calgary were still potential landing spots for Eichel. Says that NYR is the last place in the world where Buffalo would want to trade him to.

https://podcast.sportsnet.ca/tim-and...r-this-season/ (1:25:40)