Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Yobbo]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

In aggregate, it seems we're either 3rd or 4th out of 7 (depending how you weigh an ECF vs. 2nd place regular season):

MTL
WPG
OTT/CGY
TOR
EDM
VAN

TBF the Canucks were in a rebuilding phase years 1-5 and the Sens years 3-7...the other 5 teams have been in 'win-now' mode since 2016 or earlier.

Yes, exactly.

[Roof-Daddy]

Treliving actually got stifled because of his market as well. Instead of having nada for Brodie and Janko the Flames might still have Kadri and Connor Brown if it wasn't for Kadri blocking that trade.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, those results scream that Canadian teams are in tough. And also that none of the other teams have bone any better than the Flames (and a couple have been worse)

Also, if you look league-wide, in the 7 seasons since Treliving took over:

• 5 teams have won the Cup
• 11 teams have played in the Final
• 17 teams have played in the Conference Final

Nearly half the league hasn't had any more success than the Flames since Treliving became the GM.

The Flames are basically in the "mushy middle" of the league -- along with most of the other teams. It's very difficult to break out of that. Few teams do it at all, and very few do it for a sustainable period of time. That's one reason why the "just get in and see what happens" idea is so appealing. For most teams, that's as good as they're going to get.

If there was one right answer that worked all the time, everyone would be doing it --- which would then make it no longer the one right answer.

[kehatch]

That's fair. As a fan it makes more sense to hope for a competitive team and an 04 level run when the team has the opportunity. Once we are truly out then it's time to start hoping for the draft lottery wins.

Very few teams can be circled as true contenders, and all of those have had draft picks the caliber the Flames haven't Recieved.

[Strange Brew]

I have to believe that seven years ago most of us had higher goals for the club than what the Flames have been able to achieve.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have to believe that seven years ago most of us had higher goals for the club than what the Flames have been able to achieve.

I know I did.

Especially when they finished 2nd overall in 2018/19.

Apparently it was nothing more than a fart in the wind.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Treliving actually got stifled because of his market as well. Instead of having nada for Brodie and Janko the Flames might still have Kadri and Connor Brown if it wasn't for Kadri blocking that trade.

Part of being a GM has to include assessing the risk of trying to trade for a guy with a NTC, and alienating your own guy

Toronto wins. They traded Kadri and got a return, plus scooped up Brodie

When the thread is focused making up a bunch of excuses and evaluating how the GM performed when given a pass for the context of his failures… well, that’s where some people are right now.

I want a guy smart enough to succeed, not a guy who we are working to make excuses for

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Part of being a GM has to include assessing the risk of trying to trade for a guy with a NTC, and alienating your own guy

Toronto wins. They traded Kadri and got a return, plus scooped up Brodie

When the thread is focused making up a bunch of excuses and evaluating how the GM performed when given a pass for the context of his failures… well, that’s where some people are right now.

I want a guy smart enough to succeed, not a guy who we are working to make excuses for

they do?

It doesn't excuse all but location is certainly a factor when grading a GM...seems like all the league favs are in the same kind of markets. Point being the next guy will have the same issues.

[Flamesfan05]

So we are at the point Treliving is OK because other teams suck too?

[Britflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

So we are at the point Treliving is OK because other teams suck too?

It would appear so, also its better to keep him because the next GM might be worse. So many people happy with mediocre.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

In aggregate, it seems we're either 3rd or 4th out of 7 (depending how you weigh an ECF vs. 2nd place regular season):

MTL
WPG
OTT/CGY
TOR
EDM
VAN

TBF the Canucks were in a rebuilding phase years 1-5 and the Sens years 3-7...the other 5 teams have been in 'win-now' mode since 2016 or earlier.

If Montreal is considered to be the best Canadian team on the strength of last year’s fluky run, then Calgary is doing exactly the right thing to try and squeak in and hope for miracles in the POs.

[Poe969]

Only 1 team wins the cup, only 2 teams make the finals, only this, only that, blah blah blah.

Treliving has not done anything to step up to the next level. He's bet on this core over and over because he doesn't want to risk getting worse but all that means is they won't get better. When you're stuck in mediocrity the only way out is to gamble. Changing the supporting cast won't be a big enough change. Bringing in guys around 30 who are ok and hoping they become great isn't a good bet. He brought in Markstrom and Tanev but that didn't move the needle. The team needs a significant change in order to get different results. They might end up better or they might end up worse but at least they won't be mediocre.

I think he's starting to see this and is going hard after Eichel but the mandate that anything can happen if you just make it to the playoffs is bad.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If Montreal is considered to be the best Canadian team on the strength of last year’s fluky run, then Calgary is doing exactly the right thing to try and squeak in and hope for miracles in the POs.

So you are saying the best thing Flames fans can hope for is a miracle? Sounds about right considering the current state of the franchise.

[Poe969]

Montreal also had one of the best goalies in the world playing in God mode.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by zamler

A terrible process is better than no process? That's the bar for this organization now?

Yeah that's what I said.

Sigh ...

[djsFlames]

So many people also wanting to protect mediocre, including management.

Can't screw up this great thing we have going by taking a gamble.

Frankly maddening. Worst case... you recoup proper talent like Ottawa, who were already looking to be as good as us by seasons end.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Not that BT has told me or anyone in the public for that matter, but the process, as far as I can tell based on interviews and observation is something like:
-restock through the draft. The Flames were in a miserable spot when he took over, other than Johnny in the system, notwithstanding they just traded away their marketable pieces.
-Build up through the middle, with emphasis on Centres and Dmen. The failure here was an inability to land a stable, productive goalie (until now, I think Markstrom is a fine goalie)
-supplement areas of need through trade and free agency. A lack of toughness and experience landed the Brouwer (miss). A big trade searching for a 1D landed Hamilton (hit). A big trade searching for a cost effective top 4 D landed Hamonic (miss).
-Allow young talent to "bake" in the minors. Add low cost vets to ensure competition so those young players aren't gifted time in the NHL, as it is not a development league.

Clearly some hits and missed on execution, but the plan seems to me entirely reasonable. To me his biggest failings have been linked to pro scouting. Hamonic and Neal were obvious mistakes in retrospect, but the hole they were attempting to fill made sense. Want to fire him for those mistakes, fill your boots.

[Bingo]

I honestly have zero intentions of trying to convert anyone that wants Treliving gone that they're wrong.

On numerous occasions I've stated there are certainly reasons to let him go, and to want him gone is a perfectly sane reaction to things.

Just wish those of us that didn't want to fire him, that see progress, and can understand some of the mistakes because they saw it in a pretty similar light and were equally disappointed didn't have to be labeled fans of mediocrity or having a low bar because we disagree.

This is supposed to be an contentious issue, don't have the arrogance that only one side of the argument is right.

Needing to label people that disagree with you isn't a good look.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Just because some choose not to wallow in constant misery and whining like some of you doesn't mean that they are accepting of mediocrity. I think many have stated that they would support a full and proper re-build but also accept the reality that it is highly unlikely for this organization right now, regardless of who the GM is.

[Lanny_McDonald]

A full and proper rebuild is such a fantasy. How many teams have gone through a full and proper rebuild and actually been successful? There are way more failures in rebuilding than their are success stories. This is as annoying as the narrative of having to draft top three to win a cup, then using examples of teams who drafted in those slots a decade ago, or traded/signed players who were drafted that early. Finding the right mix in a team is very difficult and there is no one way to do it right. A scorched earth approach and doing "a proper rebuild" is no more a guarantee of success than grinding it out and finding talent where you can.