Brad Treliving needs to go

[Enoch Root]

Having a stacked team also helped - but you keep on telling yourself whatever you need to.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

IMO a major role of the GM is to be able to evaluate coaches and that's an area Treliving has been abysmal. The fact that ownership had to step in and hire Darryl is telling of how much of a failure Treliving has been at evaluating coaches. Pro scouting has also been poor so there's a lot of good and a lot of bad which is a recipe for mediocrity. Too good to be really bad and not good enough to challenge for a cup. He's got to stop with the big mistakes and keep building the team through the draft which is why I kind of hope the Flames don't trade for Eichel as I'm just not sure if he on his own is better than Zary, Pelletier, Monahan and a 1st round pick.

It’s a FACT that ownership stepped in and hired Darryl?
Has this been confirmed. All I’ve heard re: the hiring of Darryl is that Treliving wanted to hire him at the time they hired Ward but Darryl wasn’t interested presumably because the Flames didn’t have a legit #1 goalie at that time.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

It’s a FACT that ownership stepped in and hired Darryl?
Has this been confirmed. All I’ve heard re: the hiring of Darryl is that Treliving wanted to hire him at the time they hired Ward but Darryl wasn’t interested presumably because the Flames didn’t have a legit #1 goalie at that time.

So Treliving gave Ward the job in mid Sept and then signed Markstrom 3 weeks later to what, teach Darryl a lesson? Then come crawling back, hat in hand, a few months later? Haha. Funny stuff

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

It’s a FACT that ownership stepped in and hired Darryl?
Has this been confirmed. All I’ve heard re: the hiring of Darryl is that Treliving wanted to hire him at the time they hired Ward but Darryl wasn’t interested presumably because the Flames didn’t have a legit #1 goalie at that time.

Let’s also not lose sight that Sutter had retired. He, and his wife and his son,were probably happy living his life on the farm. He had some work with the Ducks, but probably safe to say his commitment level was far less than that of an NHL coach. Sutter was probably pretty comfortable. So, when the Flames approached him, he probably did want to take some time to mull it over with his family and ask himself if that is what he really wanted to do. Did he really want to come out of retirement and spend X many days on the road and X many 12-16 hour days in the office/on the ice. Did he want to do it?

Fast forward teo-three months and we’re in a global pandemic. Probably another reason why he didn’t take the job during the following offseason. The Flames, not knowing what next year looks like, were probably okay to go back to Ward as plan B. He did a decent job to that point, he would be cheap and on a two year deal. Simply put, he was hired to be fired.

Treliving knew it, the owners knew it, and Ward himself probably knew it. Short of knocking it out of the park, the Flames would be moving on in short order. They were just waiting for Sutter’s commitment. He was plan A all along.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Let’s also not lose sight that Sutter had retired. He, and his wife and his son,were probably happy living his life on the farm. He had some work with the Ducks, but probably safe to say his commitment level was far less than that of an NHL coach. Sutter was probably pretty comfortable. So, when the Flames approached him, he probably did want to take some time to mull it over with his family and ask himself if that is what he really wanted to do. Did he really want to come out of retirement and spend X many days on the road and X many 12-16 hour days in the office/on the ice. Did he want to do it?

Fast forward teo-three months and we’re in a global pandemic. Probably another reason why he didn’t take the job during the following offseason. The Flames, not knowing what next year looks like, were probably okay to go back to Ward as plan B. He did a decent job to that point, he would be cheap and on a two year deal. Simply put, he was hired to be fired.

Treliving knew it, the owners knew it, and Ward himself probably knew it. Short of knocking it out of the park, the Flames would be moving on in short order. They were just waiting for Sutter’s commitment. He was plan A all along.

Ding ding ding!!

Sutter was persued before Ward was hired full time, of that there is no doubt.

Think back a year and you can see why it wasn't going to happen. IMO.

Pandemic was gearing up for a major wave at a time that vaccines were not yet on the horizon.

Sutter had retired to the farm to live with wife Wanda and son/best buddy Chris. With Chris suffering from Downs syndrome and with Covid being fatal for many with that particular genetic disorder, i have zero doubt that a hard bubble was created to protect all of them. No way was he going to risk contracting and passing on the virus to them.

Fast forward to 6 months later and vaccines are already being distributed to the most vulnerable and those in Daryls age group and the circumstances have changed completely. Sutter let's them know he is now available, the team is a floundering mess on the ice, and boom.....he is named coach again.

No conspiracy theory necessary. Just a complete change of the situation is the simplest explanation.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So Treliving gave Ward the job in mid Sept and then signed Markstrom 3 weeks later to what, teach Darryl a lesson? Then come crawling back, hat in hand, a few months later? Haha. Funny stuff

Every insider take on the situation I’ve heard says Treliving wanted to hire Darryl but Darryl wasn’t interested and that’s when they hired Ward.

Going from memory, but in one of his early press conferences, Darryl talked about only being interested in coaching a team that met some specific criteria and one of which was having a #1 goalie. That’s one of the biggest things that changed with the Flames between Darryl supposedly turning the Flames down and then agreeing to join months later.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Good lord. They signed Ward to a 2 year contract knowing he was a lame duck?

So we absolutely throw out Treliving’s press conference and describing how long they took to make sure Ward was absolutely the right person

Then we give 100% credence to his conference where he got his man with Sutter? Because of finally having the right goalie?

My god, man. Some gymnastics for sure

It’s more believable that the poor play of the team annoyed Sutter to the point of calling up the owners and saying he needed to coach the team or he was gonna put a brick through his TV

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Having a stacked team also helped - but you keep on telling yourself whatever you need to.

All I’m saying is, a trade that saw Philly become a dominant team in the 90s that reached the 3rd round twice and the Finals once, if it can be deemed a loss, is a loss I can live with.

The Avs were stacked, yes. They weren’t winning anything with Jocelyn Thibault.

The Lindros trade is also the rare situation where the player you’re giving up as the centrepiece is just as good or better as Lindros anyway.

That’s what makes it so pointless. Give the Avs Lindros instead of Forsberg, they probably have just as much success, if not more. Same for the Flyers - I think a core lead by Forsberg, LecLair, Renberg, Desjardins and Hextall could’ve done about as much damage.

Arguably more, if they’d kept all the assets they spent for Lindros.

That’s not on the table here. It’s not like we’re sabotaging our own potential dynasty.

This is an attempt to make us relevant.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Good lord. They signed Ward to a 2 year contract knowing he was a lame duck?

So we absolutely throw out Treliving’s press conference and describing how long they took to make sure Ward was absolutely the right person

Then we give 100% credence to his conference where he got his man with Sutter? Because of finally having the right goalie?

My god, man. Some gymnastics for sure

It’s more believable that the poor play of the team annoyed Sutter to the point of calling up the owners and saying he needed to coach the team or he was gonna put a brick through his TV

The scenario that is both believable and likely to me is as follows:
- In the off-season the Flames pursued Sutter
- For whatever reason he wasn't willing to come on board
- At that point they went back to Ward.
- No coach is going to sign a 1 year deal, nor is a team going to give them one. You need a 2 year commitment to avoid the lame duck dynamics
- I also believe at that stage they had some faith in Ward. It wasn't a fake commitment. they were giving him the reigns
- After a poor start to the year, they went back to Sutter, perhaps at the urging of ownership, perhaps not, and for whatever reason at that point he was willing to commit

I see that being how it played out.

[dino7c]

Didn't Sutter himself say he had been asked previously if he would be interested but the timing wasn't right for him? Before Peters

[Strange Brew]

IMO the interesting question is how much ownership pushed for Sutter, whether it be off season or in season. And how much Treliving initiated or embraced his hiring.

It has been said by all parties that ownership was heavily involved in the decision, that is undisputed.

Does it even really matter? He hired Ward and I assume takes accountability for that. He is still the GM and even his biggest supporters would have to agree he’s just about run out of chances to demonstrate the team is headed in the right direction.

[kehatch]

I don't look good in tinfoil so I am not getting into the conspiracies, but the Ward hire was a mistake regardless of Sutter's availability. I didn't like his coaching to finish the season, some of his decisions in the playoffs were mind blowingly awful, and it was clear we needed a coach capable of fixing the cultural issues with this team (and he wasn't it) .

I like Treliving. But his biggest mistakes were failing to get a goalie, not hiring the right coach, and wasting assets with the false impression our missing peice was a RH shot winger.

He has solved two of the above issues, and it looks like he has learned his lesson re the RW.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The Colorado Avalanche won two cups because they stole Patrick Roy from Montreal.

Something they wouldn’t have been able to do if they were the Quebec Nordiques.

The Colorado Avalanche were able to trade for Patrick Roy because they had Jocelyn Thibault to offer as part of the deal. They drafted Thibault with one of the picks that came from the Lindros trade.

Without the huge haul that the franchise got from the Lindros trade, the Avs would not have been able to make the later trades that built their first championship team. On the other hand, if the Flyers had kept Forsberg, Ricci, Duchesne, Hextall, Huffman, Simon, and their two first-round picks, they would have been a much better team than they ever became with Lindros.

It's worth noting that at the last minute, the Nordiques tried to back out of the deal with Philadelphia and trade Lindros to the Rangers instead. When the arbitrator ruled that the Philly deal had to be adhered to, the Rangers kept their assets — and two years later, they won the Stanley Cup.

The Flames would not be giving up a Peter Forsberg in a trade with Buffalo, but then, Eichel is no Lindros either. It all comes back to the basic truth: Some prices are too high to be worth paying.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Good lord. They signed Ward to a 2 year contract knowing he was a lame duck?

So we absolutely throw out Treliving’s press conference and describing how long they took to make sure Ward was absolutely the right person

Then we give 100% credence to his conference where he got his man with Sutter? Because of finally having the right goalie?

My god, man. Some gymnastics for sure

It’s more believable that the poor play of the team annoyed Sutter to the point of calling up the owners and saying he needed to coach the team or he was gonna put a brick through his TV

If Ward was ‘the guy’, why did it take the Flames 3-4 weeks after the season to announce it? Hard negotiations over that 750-800K salary? 1 or 2 year term?

You’re smarter than this, I think?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If Ward was ‘the guy’, why did it take the Flames 3-4 weeks after the season to announce it? Hard negotiations over that 750-800K salary? 1 or 2 year term?

You’re smarter than this, I think?

Maybe they shouldn’t have hired him if they didn’t think he could do the job.

[Jacks]

Just ridiculous, there are about a half dozen posters including a couple of mods who will defend anything that Treliving has done. Results don't matter, team is stuck in perpetual mediocrity but "what would you have done?" pathetic.

This team isn't going to win anything. The prospect base is below average. They are stuck between adding mid round picks to an inadequate core or adding bit pieces hoping for a Cinderella run. Sorry, not good enough.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by TOfan

On the other hand, this organization has never willfully entered a rebuild. Not once. The one time they were dragged into it, they got out of it the first instance they could. I suspect that direction came from ownership.

Trelivings decision, he was in charge for all those years. Disagree?
"Show me the evidence"

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Just ridiculous, there are about a half dozen posters including a couple of mods who will defend anything that Treliving has done. Results don't matter, team is stuck in perpetual mediocrity but "what would you have done?" pathetic.

This team isn't going to win anything. The prospect base is below average. They are stuck between adding mid round picks to an inadequate core or adding bit pieces hoping for a Cinderella run. Sorry, not good enough.

Why the hell does it matter if they are a mod or not?
And in case you are talking about me I’m no longer a mod including because of the “as a mod” garbage like this.
Should mods not be allowed to have an opinion?
Should they seek your approval first?

What a junk post.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Why the hell does it matter if they are a mod or not?
And in case you are talking about me I’m no longer a mod including because of the “as a mod” garbage like this.
Should mods not be allowed to have an opinion?
Should they seek your approval first?

What a junk post.

Because it is intimidating to other posters when forum leaders attack anyone who criticized the direction of the team or the moves that Treliving had made. If you're not a mod anymore then your opinion carries no more weight than mine.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Because it is intimidating to other posters when forum leaders attack anyone who criticized the direction of the team or the moves that Treliving had made. If you're not a mod anymore then your opinion carries no more weight than mine.

None of the mods think their opinions carries more weight
I would suggest you get over it and leave the mods status out of it
I’ve also never seen them “attack”. Disagreeing and challenging isn’t attacking