Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Roof-Daddy]

Uh-oh.

Here comes the "don't criticize Treliving or the Flames" police

I'm saying I want Eichel on the Flames, I have no idea what the price is, or how big the risk is.

EDIT: At the very least I just want this to be over, one way or another. Flames have gone so long without an elite #1C, and there is one available. Every day I hope they get him and it doesn't happen. If it's not going to happen, then just take the hope away.

[danny darko]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

31 NHL GMs agree that the asking price is not worth paying, since no deal has been made.

Are you saying that nobody in the entire league has any balls? Or is this a criticism of Treliving alone, as so often happens around here, ignoring the existence of all the other teams?

I mean, I'm not sure it's a fair assessment to say 31 GMs agree the asking price is too high. There are many other factors that contribute to Jack not being an option for teams, like fitting a $10mil player into your roster.

[GioforPM]

The list of teams that need Eichel, can fit him into their cap, have assets to get him and are willing to risk the surgery is probably actually pretty short. I’m betting the last item is a tricky one, especially with no in person assessment. I’d sure want my staff to talk to the intended surgeon.

[blender]

It's funny.
I know the ask from Buffalo is supposed to be futures-based, but some of the offers being floated on here are cracked.
Tkachuk for example; if I'm Treliving I'm not including Tkachuk in a package. He is the package, straight up, one for one, maybe a small add. I don't think that Eichel today is worth more than Tkachuk today. Tkachuk is 2 years at 8m. Eichel is 5 at 10m.

And the 4 1sts is a pipe dream for Buffalo. Very few teams would mortgage that much of their future for a damaged player, no matter how good he is.

I, for one, am glad Treliving isn't interested in paying the ask as it stands now.

[blender]

Originally Posted by danny darko

I mean, I'm not sure it's a fair assessment to say 31 GMs agree the asking price is too high. There are many other factors that contribute to Jack not being an option for teams, like fitting a $10mil player into your roster.

Would it be fair to say that every GM in a position to trade for Eichel thinks the ask is too high?

[camm13]

Originally Posted by blender

It's funny.
I know the ask from Buffalo is supposed to be futures-based, but some of the offers being floated on here are cracked.
Tkachuk for example; if I'm Treliving I'm not including Tkachuk in a package. He is the package, straight up, one for one, maybe a small add. I don't think that Eichel today is worth more than Tkachuk today. Tkachuk is 2 years at 8m. Eichel is 5 at 10m.

And the 4 1sts is a pipe dream for Buffalo. Very few teams would mortgage that much of their future for a damaged player, no matter how good he is.

I, for one, am glad Treliving isn't interested in paying the ask as it stands now.

Tkachuk is one year left at $7M. Then his QO is $9M the following year. I'd rather have a $10M Eichel, then a $9M Tkachuk.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The list of teams that need Eichel, can fit him into their cap, have assets to get him and are willing to risk the surgery is probably actually pretty short. I’m betting the last item is a tricky one, especially with no in person assessment. I’d sure want my staff to talk to the intended surgeon.

Minnesota apparently will let him choose

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Uh-oh.

Here comes the "don't criticize Treliving or the Flames" police

Get off your high horse.

At least you admit that you were criticizing Treliving specifically, even though you didn’t have the balls to mention him by name in your original snark.

So tell me, why hasn’t anybody else made a deal for Eichel, if Treliving’s lack of testicular fortitude is the only holdup? He isn’t stopping any other team.

I'm saying I want Eichel on the Flames, I have no idea what the price is, or how big the risk is.

And you obviously don't care what the price or the risk might be.

I'd like to see Eichel on the Flames if he fully recovers from his surgery and if the cost of acquisition isn't enough to make the team worse overall. You just want what you want and no ifs about it.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Stillman16

It's also a huge risk! There's no guarantee he recovers fully, or even plays again!

Without protection on the deal (protected picks, contingent picks based on recovery/games played), I wouldn't be comfortable with a deal.

If this drags on, the best course of action for Buffalo IMO would be to get Eichel's treatment started, and trade when healthy. They are expecting the acquiring team to assume the risk, and pay the premium for the potential.

If they are trying to pass the risk, the expected ask needs to reflect it!

The cost and number of suitors will increase (or be none if he can't recover), but that's the reward/risk, and if Buffalo isn't comfortable with the risk, they need to accept a lower cost to expect another team to assume that risk.

How does Buffalo “get Eichel’s treatment started” when the team and player are unable to agree on the nature of the treatment?

[blender]

Originally Posted by camm13

Tkachuk is one year left at $7M. Then his QO is $9M the following year. I'd rather have a $10M Eichel, then a $9M Tkachuk.

Yes, 2 years at 8m (average) is the team control for Tkachuk. If he plays well enough to be worth 9m beyond that it is a good problem to have.
Eichel's 5x10 could turn into an anchor if his injury issue doesn’t get solved.

[GioforPM]

Buffalo is simply not going to cave on the surgery. Any team that trades for him is going to allow it. There’s no way around this.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blender

Yes, 2 years at 8m (average) is the team control for Tkachuk. If he plays well enough to be worth 9m beyond that it is a good problem to have.
Eichel's 5x10 could turn into an anchor if his injury issue doesn’t get solved.

If the injury isn’t resolved would he just not remain on LTIR for the rest of his career? Or are you saying he’d recover enough to play but just not be any good? I find that unlikely.

[blender]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If the injury isn’t resolved would he just not remain on LTIR for the rest of his career? Or are you saying he’d recover enough to play but just not be any good? I find that unlikely.

Even LTIR is a problem as it severely limits cap flexibility during the season and the off season. Having a 5 year 10m LTIR problem would be a nightmare. I guess if you were in a five-year rebuild you could manage it, but that's about it. Teams pay assets to get rid of these type of contracts.

I like the idea of acquiring Eichel, but the cost has to reflect the risk.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If the injury isn’t resolved would he just not remain on LTIR for the rest of his career? Or are you saying he’d recover enough to play but just not be any good? I find that unlikely.

That’s still real money that the owners would need to pay out. Would they still allow the Flames to spend to the cap on top of and extra $10 million dollars? I don’t know for sure, but I have doubts.

Granted, they will probably take out insurance on a portion his contract, but given his current health, the premiums are probably going to be very high. Plus, if he goes with the less conventional treatment, it could complicate insurance matters even more. In fact I would bet on it.

[Monahammer]

No doubt the owners have to consider the financial risk of the contract.
But as a fan, I dont have to care about that.

They can balance that risk against the risk/benefit of not having/having a player as good as healed Eichel. Not having and continuing in mediocrity through a financial downturn could be disastrous for the franchise long term as well.

As a fan, I want the team to be competitive. The best way to achieve that with the current state of the NHL and unwillingness to rebuild through the draft is by gambling on a situation like Eichel.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

No doubt the owners have to consider the financial risk of the contract.
But as a fan, I dont have to care about that.

They can balance that risk against the risk/benefit of not having/having a player as good as healed Eichel. Not having and continuing in mediocrity through a financial downturn could be disastrous for the franchise long term as well.

As a fan, I want the team to be competitive. The best way to achieve that with the current state of the NHL and unwillingness to rebuild through the draft is by gambling on a situation like Eichel.

The gamble comes down to cost. Jack Eichel is not singlehandedly going to drive you into the playoffs. McDavid, arguably the best player can barely singlehandedly will his team into the playoffs. So again, it comes down to what the price is. Does stripping your team of a top line player, a 1st and a prospect help? Can the Flames afford that? I personally think that's all they can offer without killing their team long term. Teams now realize you have to hit some home runs with the draft in order to do well. I'm surprised how many people here are all in on Jack, without thinking that the team needs to keep their future 1sts to rebuild. If this team was deep with prospects, than giving up this stuff makes sense but it's really not. My guess is there are other teams with better prospects and can afford to give up their future for the win now. This team can't afford it, while giving up more to beat other teams' bids.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by fleury

The gamble comes down to cost. Jack Eichel is not singlehandedly going to drive you into the playoffs. McDavid, arguably the best player can barely singlehandedly will his team into the playoffs. So again, it comes down to what the price is. Does stripping your team of a top line player, a 1st and a prospect help? Can the Flames afford that? I personally think that's all they can offer without killing their team long term. Teams now realize you have to hit some home runs with the draft in order to do well. I'm surprised how many people here are all in on Jack, without thinking that the team needs to keep their future 1sts to rebuild. If this team was deep with prospects, than giving up this stuff makes sense but it's really not. My guess is there are other teams with better prospects and can afford to give up their future for the win now. This team can't afford it, while giving up more to beat other teams' bids.

It's a gamble not to try anything and stay mediocre forever.

[PeteMoss]

Trade likely won't happen until near start of training camp or just after at this point. Buffalo under no pressure to trade now so will likely draw it out to try to get increased offers.

[madmike]

At this stage I don't think Eichel gets dealt until he has his treatment and teams see how he responds. Buffalo isn't going to get the return they want as long as there are question marks around Eichel's health.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That’s still real money that the owners would need to pay out. Would they still allow the Flames to spend to the cap on top of and extra $10 million dollars? I don’t know for sure, but I have doubts.

Granted, they will probably take out insurance on a portion his contract, but given his current health, the premiums are probably going to be very high. Plus, if he goes with the less conventional treatment, it could complicate insurance matters even more. In fact I would bet on it.

They can charge an Eichel tax on tickets.

But, yes, I agree that this is a concern, and it’s why I am pretty torn about it. There should be a provision in his contract that he can get the surgery but that if it goes wrong he retires, or that he self insures prior to it.

But no trade will ever happen without a team being willing to let him have his way. If that’s Minnie, OK. Me, I’d roll the dice as well.