Ongoing Residential Schools Tragedy Discussion

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Hitler thought what he was doing was right, and just. No one tries to defend that position, so I don't think a minister should be making a statement like that today, with what we know now. Even if residential schools were 100% good intentions(which I don't believe), what value is there to say it? It's boneheaded.

That’s basically the issue. Any time something is carried out by a large group of people, you can pretty much assume they think they’re doing the right thing, or a good thing, or a just thing. Not one person would dispute that point, so bringing it up in conversation just seems so spectacularly stupid that it’s hard to comprehend why one would even need to mention it at all.

I’m honestly surprised there was even one poster who didn’t understand that and tried to do some moral posturing about “truth” instead. Seems “we” have given up basic common sense in favour of taking every opportunity to make everything fit our silly little narratives. Exhausting, honestly.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

And yet religious organizations comprise a huge amount of the world’s humanitarian aid. Atheist people throw a couple of bucks in a container at the circle K, and feel good

True. Especially when they promise the money, they meet their commitments. A religious organisation wouldn’t say… promise $25 million to residential school survivors, raise less than $4M while spending $60M on fancy new churches and renovations… and then say “uh sorry, no more money!”

A religious organisation would never do that.

Maybe given the very grey history of religious humanitarianism, and the great role secular humanitarian organisations play in the world, it might be best to avoid staking that one in the ground.

[8 Ball]

The Red Cross/Crescent have over 90,000,000 volunteers. Which organization you are talking about matches that?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

The Red Cross/Crescent have over 90,000,000 volunteers. Which organization you are talking about matches that?

That's a mighty fine secular humanitarian organization you chose to use for an example. Good one!

The white cross on the Swiss flag originated in the 1200s as “a symbol of the Christian faith,” according to the Swiss Embassy in the United States. However, the Red Cross was founded as a secular, non-denominational organization, and they make no mention of Christianity as a reason for adopting the symbol.
The founder of the Red Cross, Henry Dunant, was a Swiss entrepreneur who was raised in the Calvinist faith in Geneva, Switzerland. He was deeply affected by the sight of 40,000 wounded and dying soldiers on the battlefield in Solferino, Italy, in 1859, where he was seeking an audience with Napolean III for business interests. He helped organize locals to help the wounded and dying soldiers.

https://www.learnreligions.com/what-...s-mean-3975204

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

The Red Cross/Crescent have over 90,000,000 volunteers. Which organization you are talking about matches that?

Well, considering as Fuzz mentioned that the Red Cross is a secular organisation, and considering other secular organisations like Oxfam and Doctors Without Borders, as well as UNICEF, perhaps you could go ahead and name a religious organisation that matches those.

[zamler]

My dad can beat up your dad. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Well, considering as Fuzz mentioned that the Red Cross is a secular organisation, and considering other secular organisations like Oxfam and Doctors Without Borders, as well as UNICEF, perhaps you could go ahead and name a religious organisation that matches those.

Interesting. I honestly thought that the Red Cross/Red Crescent were affiliated with religion.

[StickMan]

Interesting opinion piece.


https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...-pay-attention

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by StickMan

Interesting opinion piece.


https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...-pay-attention

Candice Malcolm? Eeek.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The vast majority of Canadians, indigenous and otherwise, a) do not know who Dundas was, b) do not know or care that there is a street in Toronto named after him. If asked if the street should be renamed, after being given an objective explanation about his legacy, I suspect most people would shrug and say "yeah, I guess so".

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Candice Malcolm? Eeek.

At this point anyone who seriously uses the term “woke mob” without any sense of irony comes off like an embarrassing loser with zero self-awareness. It doesn’t help that she spent half her opinion piece complaining about them.

She did encourage me to watch the presentation and figure out exactly what she was bull####ting about, so that was worthwhile.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by StickMan

Interesting opinion piece.


https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...-pay-attention

Is it?

I don’t think anyone has said that residential schools were for the purpose of killing indigenous children. It appears to be arguing against a strawman.

It’s more accurate to say no one cared if indigenous children lived or died while accomplishing the goal.

I don’t get how Malcolms argument makes things better. We didn’t intend to kill all these kids in order to eliminate indigenous culture. Instead while we were eliminating indigenous culture some kids died because we didn’t care. Both are still horrific.

[Fuzz]

Ho hum, just another couple articles about the Catholic Church being horrible on this file...

The Roman Catholic Church spent millions of dollars that were supposed to go to residential school survivors on lawyers, administration, a private fundraising company and unapproved loans, according to documents obtained by CBC News.

The documents include a host of other revelations. They appear to contradict the Catholic Church's public claims about money paid to survivors.

"There are also a large number of serious accounting discrepancies that are alarming to Canada," states one document, a 53-page federal government "factum" summarizing the evidence in a 2015 court matter.

None of the other churches involved in the landmark Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement of 2005 — Anglican, United and Presbyterian — engaged in any of these practices. They all paid the full amounts agreed to years ago without incident.

The Catholic Church never ended up having to legally justify its activity. On the eve of the 2015 hearing on the matter, Saskatchewan Court of Queen's Bench Justice Neil Gabrielson approved the church's controversial buyout proposal, and the case was closed.

Advocates for survivors say they're disgusted and that the Catholic Church must be held accountable.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...121678?cmp=rss

A Catholic priest has been banned by a Winnipeg archdiocese from speaking publicly after accusing residential school survivors of lying about sexual abuse to get more money from court settlements, of spreading falsehoods about residential schools, and joking about shooting those writing graffiti on churches, among other comments.

The statements were made over weeks of services at St. Emile Roman Catholic Church, and were included in videos on its Facebook page.

During a July 10 mass Father Rhéal Forest — who was temporarily placed at St. Emile while the parish's regular pastor, Father Gerry Sembrano, was on vacation — said residential school survivors lied about being sexually abused so they would receive more money during the settlement process with the federal government.

"If they wanted extra money, from the money that was given to them, they had to lie sometimes — lie that they were abused sexually and, oop, another $50,000," Forest said.

"It's kind of hard if you're poor not to lie," he continued, adding that all of the Indigenous people who he knew during his 22 years working up north liked residential schools.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...121886?cmp=rss

Gross.

[Engine09]

Didn't see you had that covered with the second link.

These disgusting pigs never cease to amaze.

[timun]

Originally Posted by StickMan

Interesting opinion piece.


https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...-pay-attention

The most interesting thing about this opinion piece, right off the bat, is that the Sun can't be arsed to spellcheck the band name. They misspell it in the title, and the second sentence, "Tk'emplus". It's Tk'emlups.

Like, it's not as though someone just errantly, accidentally swapped the position of a couple letters (e.g. "Tk'emlpus" or "Tk'emlusp"). The 'p' moved two letters over, they totally ####ed it up. Twice! It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to spellcheck this. It's like misspelling the city of Kamloops, "Kamploos". Repeatedly.

[edslunch]

The government should withhold every dollar of funding and tax exemption including schools until the church pays their obligations, as laughably minuscule as they are. $22M owing...do you suppose they could find that somewhere in their $4B Canadian assets (not even counting the real value of real estate that they claim as $1)

Actually, just cut off funding for Catholic schools until they pay. Children for children.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/appv...mp=in-app-view

[Locke]

Originally Posted by edslunch

The government should withhold every dollar of funding and tax exemption including schools until the church pays their obligations, as laughably minuscule as they are. $22M owing...do you suppose they could find that somewhere in their $4B Canadian assets (not even counting the real value of real estate that they claim as $1)

Actually, just cut off funding for Catholic schools until they pay. Children for children.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/appv...mp=in-app-view

Getting Cash out of the Church is like getting a gourmet 5-course meal from a hobo.

Not gonna happen.

[Mr.Coffee]

Gotta agree with edslunch there needs to be reconciliation with the Catholic Church in Canada. There needs to be some justice served and since the Church exclusively cares about money that’s the best way to get them.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Actually, just cut off funding for Catholic schools

This would be even better. It's ridiculous that in 2021 a few of our supposedly secular provincial governments are still providing taxpayer dollars to fund religious education (and only for one religion at that).

[Reaper]

If the Catholic Church was threatened with losing their tax exempt status due to welching on a court ordered settlement they would have the remaining $21Million by the end of the week. Either a show would be made about famous Catholics donating to cover the cost or they'd deliver the money while wearing rags crying about persecution and it would be back to business as usual.