Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's not just about Wright. 2022 is looking to threaten 2003.

I am from the future...Flames will pick a player worse than Eichel in the 2022 draft

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

There are really only two real options (outside of the treadmill)

Option A) Tank back to back years for Wright/Bedard.

The cost: Miserable seasons with high risk of not getting the picks you want, and becoming an unattractive FA destination

Option B) Acquire Eichel, try to build around him on the fly. You'll be in a futures deficit, but can probably make it work, maybe after a year or two. Maybe you'll never be a Tampa-tier contender, but you could definitely make some deep playoff runs, and maybe, after a long time, sort of pull off what Washington did in 2018. A slow buildup to a championship team.

The cost: some immediate futures

The treadmill option is still far worse than either of these options. Whether it's trading 2nds for Curtis Lazars or drafting middle six wingers with our first rounders, you're not going anywhere if you stick to this plan. Lindholm isn't a 1C. Monahan isn't a 1C.

I think there's a third option. And that's dealing Monahan now. If he's not part of your future identity wise (not fast enough or creative enough), deal the guy for a prospect and a pick. His production alone can bring that back. So you build temporarily around JG and MK, get a higher draft position this upcoming year, develop players in the next year or so and hopefully this time next year you have more depth in your system, more draft picks, higher draft picks and you can afford to buy a FA or two to accelerate the quick retool. Right now this upcoming season Zary ain't gonna be anyone, and there are no other prospects knocking on anyone's door, so make this a development year, minus Monahan. This is such a critical year. Trading away next years' picks and getting rid of someone at the top is a surefire way of years of mediocrity.

[Pickle Juice]

Imagine Jack in the Blasty jersey! I can’t wait!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The post in question is from 02/23/2021. Again, long before Eichel's injury was disclosed. And even then I was saying the Flames need to think long and hard over the move.

I was referring to this one, from the thread about Eichel’s surgery:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Calgary is probably in a pretty good situation if they want to take a run at him, because they do have a young player that could fit in the structure being talked about, and could even out the salary issue. Tkachuk's QO puts him in the same range as Eichel, so Buffalo may not blink at that. With the extra million+, depending on the extension negotiated, they could then be adding pieces to the mix beyond just the primary. The thing is Buffalo has to be getting value back for the money they take on. The thing Buffalo doesn't want to take on is aging players with term, which is why Calgary might be attractive to them. I see two possible deals that could work.

To Buffalo: Tkachuk ($7M) + Monahan ($6.375) + Hanifin ($4.95) + 2021 1st - Total salary = $18.3M

To Calgary: Eichel $(10M) + Ristolainen ($5.4M) + Eakin ($2.25M) - Total salary = $17.6M

Or

To Buffalo: Tkachuk ($7M) + Lindholm ($4.85) + Hanifin ($4.95) + 2021 1st - Total salary = $16.8M

To Calgary: Eichel $(10M) + Reinhart ($5.2M) + Borgen (RFA, Est $1.5M) - Total salary = $16.7M

I think those deals could work and make some sense for both teams. The idea that Eichel, with his salary and his health issues, garnering a massive haul is unlikely. Deals have to make sense fiscally these days, and Eichel's $10M price tag is tough to swallow. If he was dominant like McDavid, then maybe. But he isn't. There's a lot of risk involved with taking Eichel on, and the NHL is turning into a league where risk aversion is a big things most teams consider.

And this one I guess (which I found going back to grab the date from the other one and prove I wasn’t crazy), from a thread titled “You’re GM for a day, what do you do”, post date May 20:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

A little for everyone.

Trades

To Buffalo: Tkachuk + Monahan + Hanifin + 1st in 2021 + 3rd in 2022 ($16.7M)
To Calgary: Eichel + Reinhart + Borgen ($16.6M)

To Seattle: 2nd in 2022 + any player from the current Heat roster
To Calgary: Guarantee they take Milan Lucic

I’m not trying to make this a “gotchya” or anything, I honestly don’t understand how you can go from presenting deals that you think “make sense” to proposing a fat deal for Eichel if you were “GM for a day,” just two months ago (AFTER the neck stuff and unique surgery stuff came out), and be where you’re at today, which I guess is back to where you were in February?

Nothing has changed, no games have been played, no new news. So I don’t get it.

I’ll check out the games though. I can’t imagine this season is a great one to pull from, but if that’s what you saw that’s what you saw, so I’ll try to see the same.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by fleury

I think there's a third option. And that's dealing Monahan now. If he's not part of your future identity wise (not fast enough or creative enough), deal the guy for a prospect and a pick. His production alone can bring that back.

A return for Monahan is probably comparable to what Buffalo got for Sam Reinhart. That doesn't really move the needle much unless by some amazing stroke of luck it is a lottery-winning unprotected pick coming back. Otherwise? Remember Morgan Klimchuk, Emile Poirier, Kenny Agostino, Reto Berra, and Mark Cundari? Neither do I.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Join us, Gabriel! We have a broken first line center, zero future prospects, and a trade depleted roster to acquire said center. Welcome aboard!

‘Zero future prospects’

You’re laying it on a little thick.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by TOfan

‘Zero future prospects’

You’re laying it on a little thick.

It’s not too far off if you take a rip through capfriendly for the Flames.

Non roster players from the flames outside of mackey, pelletier, zary and maybe wolf are pretty grim.

And the 3 mentioned skaters are probably going to be in the bottom half of your lineup

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I was referring to this one...

You'll notice that those are in threads specific to making deals and what I think it would take, which is to balance out some of the craziness posted that people thought Buffalo should take (the should versus would). The one I even lead off with "Something for everyone" trying to find the secret sauce that keeps everyone happy. Again, some trade proposals are to try and balance expectations, not an outright statement you would do them (as my other posts clearly say). I think the whole Eichel thing has spun out of control and we've gone to the point where the outcomes could set the organization back to the stone age. There's a line, and because of all the extenuating circumstances with Eichel's condition, the line has shifted. The catch of the day may have been appealing months ago, but with the market price and how bad it smells, I'll just stay away from the fish and order the steak off the menu.

[AustinL_NHL]

If acquiring Eichel gives the Flames a 50% shot at acquiring a top 10 talent that could be a key missing piece and a 50% shot at setting the Flames back to the "stone age", I am 110% on board with taking that risk rather than continuing to live in mediocrity

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by TOfan

‘Zero future prospects’

You’re laying it on a little thick.

Pardon the thickness. But I'd wager our prospect pool after a deal of Eichel's magnitude would be ~bottom 5 in the NHL.

[browna]

I know the Eichel train is in full gear, especially as tidbits here and there have lathered people up and have them eventually talking themselves and others into him being the sole solution to all the teams problems.

As most top players potentially available gets people star gazing and finding a “get rich quick scheme” as a single solution to all that cures people’s complaints about a team, a roster and a GM, and fixing the tired “organization doesn’t care about winning “ etc lines trotted out, but this would change everything...just like Tavares was going to bring the Leafs Cup wins ( he doesn’t have a playoff series win) and even going back 12 years, Bouwmeester here was supposed to put us over the top. And those were FA signings, costing owners pure cash, not assets (besides what FLA got for early negotiation rights).

If he was a free agent, open the bank. But an acquisition cost that is rumoured, for a PITA player who’s complained about everything including the sky being blue in Buffalo, and recovering from a neck injury with no clear timeline as to when he will be healthy, there’s a lot more risk.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

They already have Lucic and Ritchie for that

Let's get one more Ritchie just to be safe.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Pardon the thickness. But I'd wager our prospect pool after a deal of Eichel's magnitude would be ~bottom 5 in the NHL.

They could also use the picks and develop the players badly and still have a bad prospect pool and no Eichel. Not that much of a stretch, it happens.

So getting Eichel and knowing exactly what you have has its merits.

It's unlikely Flames will rebuild while Sutter is here, so a well-executed win now strategy is all we can really hope for. Getting Eichel would really warm me up to the idea.

[dino7c]

Okay Eichel is too rich for your blood then what?
Landeskog? almost zero chance

Who else?

Give an average NHLer an 8 year deal like the Oilers?

Its time to take some swings

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

They could also use the picks and develop the players badly and still have a bad prospect pool and no Eichel. Not that much of a stretch, it happens.

So getting Eichel and knowing exactly what you have has its merits.

It's unlikely Flames will rebuild while Sutter is here, so a well-executed win now strategy is all we can really hope for. Getting Eichel would really warm me up to the idea.

Do you though?

The guy, literally, is looking at getting a piece of his spine replaced with an artificial disk.

That isn't an ACL tear that is almost 100% able to be fixed with proper rehab.

It's entirely unknown territory for an NHL player.

That HAS to be part of the consideration here along with acquisition cost.

[AC]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Okay Eichel is too rich for your blood then what?
Landeskog? almost zero chance

Who else?

Give an average NHLer an 8 year deal like the Oilers?

Its time to take some swings

Especially since we have 0 chance of signing an elite UFA unless his best friend happens to be here.

This isn't NHL21, we don't have the same opportunities to attract free agents.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

They could also use the picks and develop the players badly and still have a bad prospect pool and no Eichel. Not that much of a stretch, it happens.

If the organization is that inept, Eichel won't help them.

If not, having their own picks and developing their own prospects will help a lot more in the long run than blowing their prospect pool to spend $50 million on a single player.

[driveway]

I feel Eichel is being overrated. Over the last 4 seasons at 5v5 Eichel ranks 22nd among centres in P/60; 28th in G/60; 56th in SAT%; 18th in SAT%-Rel. He doesn't feast on the Power Play either: 18th in PPP/60, 58th in PPG/60.

In pure scoring, among centres over that time he's 27th in goals, 21st in points, and 10th in points/game



He's can't stay on the ice for a full season, over those four seasons he played 79% of the games, and a max of 77/82 in 2018-19. In addition he's got a mysterious neck injury, an utterly miserable relationship with his team, and a 10-million dollar cap-hit.

I offer them Tkachuk, a 1st rounder that's lottery-protected for 2022, top 5 protected for 2023, and Matthew Phillips.

[kukkudo]

We need a poll I think the fan base is split on acquiring Eichel. Use base as Tkachuk 2022 first

[dino7c]

I just looked at 40 years of Flames drafting...there are a handful of guys on Eichel's level. He is better than almost every first rounder in franchise history. With Sutter, Eichel, Markstrom, Gaudreau, Lindholm, ect. on the roster they aren't picking top 3.

IDK giving up next years first doesn't seem all that risky to me...seems like using it would be far more risky

Plus if the season crashed and burned there are roster players that could easily get you back first round picks...Benning is basically giving them away