[Trade] Duncan Keith (no retention) + Tim Soderlund to EDM for Caleb Jones + cond. 2022 2nd

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

I know that Keith's advanced stats have declined, but, many Chicago fans excuse him, and blame Colliton, for his wretched and ineffective hybrid system of alleged "defense". Keith and his style of play were never a match, and neither was any other Chicago D-Man. I would not be surprised to see DK improve his advanced stats slightly.

I agree that Keith is likely a better player than what we have seen in the last couple years in Chicago. In the right environment, he could probably contribute to a contender, much like Chelios contributed in Detroit - where he had a tremendous group of defensemen to work with and support him.

But Keith is going to Edmonton <pause to digest that point> where Darnell Nurse is the best defeneman, and Keith is probably 2nd best. At least he will be if he has anything close to the resurgence that you are suggesting. But there's the rub: the Oilers, and Keith, are hoping for a resurgence, but he is going to be put in a position that may actually be worse than the one he is leaving.

It is going to be a really tough situation for him. And expectations are going to be high.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The argument that Keith is going to be better because it was Chicago making him bad, not him actually being bad, doesn't make any sense even if you're being charitable. I mean, he was one of their top d-men, playing a lot of minutes - if they were bad, you'd think he was a big part of why they were bad.

But regardless, you're effectively saying the stats are lying to us. Okay, fine. So what we're saying is that the only available evidence says that he's terrible, but we shouldn't trust it. Let's say we don't. Throw it in the garbage. We instead have to go with no evidence at all about whether he's any good or not. Would you sign a player at random for 5.5M for two years?

Further, it makes more sense to not throw out the stats but just assume that they underrate his abilities because he was on a team with poor defensive structure. Well, are the Oilers a team with significantly better defensive structure? How much is switching to the Oilers going to help? Because even if it does help somewhat, what that would do is take him from being statistically the worst defenseman in the league at preventing opposing team offence to... maybe replacement level? Maybe slightly above?

So everything goes right for you, your predictions were correct and Keith bounces back from terrible to passable. You're now paying a #5 defender 5.5 million for two years, and you gave up assets to do it.

There's just no way to spin it.

I like the fact that we have more than goals and assists than most ... but there is some ground behind stats are gospel and stats are lying to us.

I think who a player plays with and in what system is a factor that hasn't been 100% ironed out in underlying stats.

Tanev is a great example of that.

Canuck fans felt that Tanev was on the decline and that Hughes was equally as good with Tyler Myers.

This year Hughes implodes playing largely with Hamonic and Tanev looks like one of the better defensive defensemen in the game.

Lots to unpack there.

[Mull]

Anyone who picks up Gio as an example is crazy.

Gio was signed to a contract in which it was fully expected his later years may be a liability to support the earlier years

Keith was picked up solely for the later years

To remove the context of they early years of the Gio contract means people are scrambling to justify.

[Macho0978]

This trade is awful for the oilers no matter how it plays out because Holland should have been able to get some salary retained. But he’s 75% to blame. 25% goes to captain Connor who shows up his teammates when they lose in the playoffs. Holland was desperate for a leader who Connor respects. Someone to deal with him because a captain shouldn’t show up his team like he did

[dash_pinched]

Was this posted earlier?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1414735926706597888

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

This trade is awful for the oilers no matter how it plays out because Holland should have been able to get some salary retained. But he’s 75% to blame. 25% goes to captain Connor who shows up his teammates when they lose in the playoffs. Holland was desperate for a leader who Connor respects. Someone to deal with him because a captain shouldn’t show up his team like he did

So making McDavid captain at such a young age wasn't the smart thing to do?

Spoiler!

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by dash_pinched

Was this posted earlier?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1414735926706597888

Clearly this is like the episode of the Simpsons where they design and build the Homer. Keith is repeating the opposite of what he is thinking looking at the expensive monstrosity that is the Oilers.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Clearly this is like the episode of the Simpsons where they design and build the Homer. Keith is repeating the opposite of what he is thinking looking at the expensive monstrosity that is the Oilers.

Haha!

Keith’s next words on Kassian will be:

“Oh yes, and his personal hygiene is above reproach.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[You Need a Thneed]

On Oilers radio this morning, the announcer said something like "are the Oilers a better team today than they were yesterday? Yes they are. Did they pay too much to get there? Yes."

I don't think anyone is arguing the second point, but let's look at the first point.

The problem with the first point, in a salary cap world, is that you can't just say Keith (even now) is a better defenseman than Caleb Jones.

In a salary cap world, you must compare Keith, vs Jones AND the $4.5 million in cap space to sign someone else as well.

[CaptainCrunch]

Out Barrie, Jones, and possibly Larsson


In



Keith and possibly Boberg


Verdict say - Worse oh god way worse.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

On Oilers radio this morning, the announcer said something like "are the Oilers a better team today than they were yesterday? Yes they are. Did they pay too much to get there? Yes."

I don't think anyone is arguing the second point, but let's look at the first point.

The problem with the first point, in a salary cap world, is that you can't just say Keith (even now) is a better defenseman than Caleb Jones.

In a salary cap world, you must compare Keith, vs Jones AND the $4.5 million in cap space to sign someone else as well.

As a Flames fan, I am happy to have the Oilers ignore the salary cap when they make personnel moves like acquiring Keith...

its like racking up a balance on your credit card....everything is fine and dandy until you are trying to fill out the bottom of your roster with pennies and not dollars.

[Locke]

I'd love to have seen the face of the NHL employee responsible for the Fax Machine for trades.

That person probably thought this was a prank.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Clearly this is like the episode of the Simpsons where they design and build the Homer. Keith is repeating the opposite of what he is thinking looking at the expensive monstrosity that is the Oilers.

I have to say, among the guys at Athletic, Jonathan Willis has got to be up there.
Seems to trash the Oilers pretty often.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I like the fact that we have more than goals and assists than most ... but there is some ground behind stats are gospel and stats are lying to us.

I think who a player plays with and in what system is a factor that hasn't been 100% ironed out in underlying stats.

Tanev is a great example of that.

Canuck fans felt that Tanev was on the decline and that Hughes was equally as good with Tyler Myers.

This year Hughes implodes playing largely with Hamonic and Tanev looks like one of the better defensive defensemen in the game.

Lots to unpack there.

Even more to unpack. This happens more often than one may think. Calgary fans thought Rasmus was ready to step in for Brodie

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'd love to have seen the face of the NHL employee responsible for the Fax Machine for trades.

That person probably thought this was a prank.

Here goes that senile Oilers exec faxing his full tax return to the league office again

[CaptainCrunch]

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

What will the Flames do if Seattle does like Vegas and gives the Flames a pass on the expansion draft and does not choose Gio, but instead signs Spokane's Derek Ryan to a 1M deal?

Gio at 6.75 with his never winning a playoff series in his whole career leadership will be fortunate to have as good a season as Keith. Would that set the Flames back yet another year as it seem Keith is expected to do with the Oilers?

All of the sudden the Flames are short on cap space. Would that knock them out of the Eichel sweeps?

Would the Flames buy Gio out? Would they do a salary dump trade to make room for Eichel or UFA RW?

Cost of the salary dump? a 3rd and Kylington?

Been hitting the bottle again I see!!

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Been hitting the bottle again I see!!

Hitting it against his head. But concussions are a serious matter.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Would like to point out one thing - seems a bunch of Oiler fans on social media are saying his numbers were bad because he was on a bad team... isn't that the same bad team that ELIMINATED the Oilers from the play-in??

Would Keith on the Oilers have reversed that play-in series? I don't think it would have.... lol

[Darkon]

Well have no fear guys - one of the lads over on HF is involved in Real Estate (no, not Orange Julius) in Edmonton and is assuring the board that there are incredible things in store this summer both in regards to moving cap out and bringing in new players. All this news he has heard from rubbing shoulders with hockey players already buying property in Edmonton in prep to moving there. These moves will complete the picture that was started with Keith and everyone will be amazed at the brain trust that is Oiler management. They went on then to drop hints of both Taylor Hall and Hyman ending up in Edmonton on sweetheart deals. You heard it here first, well, ok I got it from Nostradamus on HF but whatever you get what I mean.