Tear it down? Can this fanbase get behind a rebuild?

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by blender

I get your point, but actually disagree that the Flames couldn't be an Islanders-type of team.
I believe their roster is much closer to NYI than many think, and the tenacity and commitment to a system is a coaching and leadership thing.

I know optimism is in short supply around here, but I feel like the basis for a competitive playoff team exists with the Flames.

It will be very interesting to see this off season unfold.

I think the biggest difference is team speed. You watch New York, you watch the Leafs, any of those strong eastern teams, and then watch a Flames game, and it's like the speed setting is on .75 it's just amazing how slow the Flames are with the puck. Can they be coached up on this, get quicker, move the puck better, skate harder? I dunno.

Edit: I'll add this - last year I watched a live stream, not so clear on the screen, and there was the biggish guy skating around like crazy, and I thought "Oh wow, Monahan is really moving tonight." Nah, it was Ritchie, looking like a ballerina out there and that should tell us something important.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

I think the biggest difference is team speed. You watch New York, you watch the Leafs, any of those strong eastern teams, and then watch a Flames game, and it's like the speed setting is on .75 it's just amazing how slow the Flames are with the puck. Can they be coached up on this, get quicker, move the puck better, skate harder? I dunno.

Edit: I'll add this - last year I watched a live stream, not so clear on the screen, and there was the biggish guy skating around like crazy, and I thought "Oh wow, Monahan is really moving tonight." Nah, it was Ritchie, looking like a ballerina out there and that should tell us something important.

I’ve seen the Flames play a faster game in the early Peters days. But they do have limitations with Monahan, Tkachuk and Lucic. Gio is not as fast as he was then, and Gaudreau isn’t really a burner (if he could beat D to the outside he’d be lethal).

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

This logic is frankly comical. Guy is mediocre for 7 years here, so he must have learned from his mistakes?

It isn't logic, it's sarcasm. Try barking up a different tree.

(Also, Ragequit? Is this a new word?)

It's a very old word in gaming. Wikipedia defines it helpfully:

A rage quit is when a player in sports or video gaming is too angry to continue playing a game and usually leaves before the end of the game or match. The player may then throw or smash their controller/keyboard in response to their "rage" to the point where it is broken and unusable.

The consensus of this board, so far as there is one, is that the fans are too angry to continue watching the games, they are going to leave, and it's management's job to throw out or smash all the team's assets to the point where the whole franchise is broken and unusable. People are actually saying the Flames would be better off for making bad trades because it will make them worse and force a rebuild. This is an insane reaction, but it's a mass insanity and feeds off the emotions of the mob.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Or, and hear me out… maybe you can look at his aggregated body of work and evaluate it. Maybe he is just what he has shown himself to be - not that good.

That's nice, up to the point where you start calling on a new GM to do the stupid things CP wants – to break the team even worse in the name of fixing it. Most of the proposals I see on here are truly asinine.

Is showing a guy who has not succeeded his walking papers now ‘rage quitting’? Lol

No, trading away all the good players for other people's junk is. And that is exactly what large numbers of people on CP are openly advocating. They repeat over and over that the team is so bad it can't possibly get any worse. I would love to see them get their way – but there won't be any Calgary Flames in another decade if they do, because the franchise will not survive without fans and the fans won't buy tickets to a team that gets maybe 50 points in a good year.

The people throwing tantrums because the Flames are not going into a rebuild have no idea how bad things can get. It would be most amusing to watch them find out.

[Hackey]

I hope they make major changes this off season, otherwise I will find it very difficult to care about this team.

I'm 100% in the rebuild group. But since it's unlikely to happen, I'll just hope and pray for a miracle.

[Mayo]

I haven't seen any talk on BSD - anyone think we'll bring him back?

I hope we do (1-2 mil range)

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Mayo

I haven't seen any talk on BSD - anyone think we'll bring him back?

I hope we do (1-2 mil range)

It's possible but it depends on if he's ok with being a backup. it sounds like he wants a chance to be a starter and that's not going to happen in Calgary.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Inferno

It's possible but it depends on if he's ok with being a backup. it sounds like he wants a chance to be a starter and that's not going to happen in Calgary.

Or anywhere else in the NHL.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, trading away all the good players for other people's junk is. And that is exactly what large numbers of people on CP are openly advocating. They repeat over and over that the team is so bad it can't possibly get any worse. I would love to see them get their way – but there won't be any Calgary Flames in another decade if they do, because the franchise will not survive without fans and the fans won't buy tickets to a team that gets maybe 50 points in a good year.

According to Forbes, Edwards' net worth increased by $300 million between March 2020 and March 2021. So even with an entire season of literally no gate revenue his personal net worth increased by $300M. Pretty sure he could survive a few years of less than sellout crowds.

[cannon7]

Will there still be a fanbase after another 20 years of mediocrity? If so, might as well stay the course.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

people seem to not realize how easy it actually is to make the playoffs. Even with a middling (at best) team the odds are still better than 50/50. Unless you are brad treliving....

ftfy

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Will there still be a fanbase after another 20 years of mediocrity? If so, might as well stay the course.

In 2041, Alberta's population will be around 7 million (compared to around 4.5 million now). By 2043, the combined population of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta would be slightly larger than Quebec's population

I find it hard to believe that Calgary won't have the population to host an NHL team, regardless of how mediocre the team is.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It isn't logic, it's sarcasm. Try barking up a different tree.
…
The consensus of this board, so far as there is one, is that the fans are too angry to continue watching the games, they are going to leave, and it's management's job to throw out or smash all the team's assets to the point where the whole franchise is broken and unusable. People are actually saying the Flames would be better off for making bad trades because it will make them worse and force a rebuild. This is an insane reaction, but it's a mass insanity and feeds off the emotions of the mob.

That's nice, up to the point where you start calling on a new GM to do the stupid things CP wants – to break the team even worse in the name of fixing it. Most of the proposals I see on here are truly asinine.


No, trading away all the good players for other people's junk is. And that is exactly what large numbers of people on CP are openly advocating. They repeat over and over that the team is so bad it can't possibly get any worse. I would love to see them get their way – but there won't be any Calgary Flames in another decade if they do, because the franchise will not survive without fans and the fans won't buy tickets to a team that gets maybe 50 points in a good year.

The people throwing tantrums because the Flames are not going into a rebuild have no idea how bad things can get. It would be most amusing to watch them find out.

Umm.. Nice rant and I do agree with a lot of your views

But I do have difficulty connecting it to the sarcastic statement about firing the GM so a new one who hasn’t made the same mistakes to learn from. Which was pretty much the main point of the post I responded to

I will remark that a mistake to be learned from is the Phaneuf for quantity trade. The current GM is sitting on assets devalued on his watch and I also don’t want to see him lose any trades out of desperation and drive the franchise further in the ditch than he has already

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I can get behind a rebuild but my wallet can’t. If they tear it down I am canceling my season tickets.

And this, in a nutshell, is why Canadian hockey markets don't need to be truly competitive. Canadians will take a crap product and like it. Even the broadcasts are crap. Canadians watch anyway.

Meanwhile a Canadian team will come out of nowhere every 4-5 years just so Canadians don't stop tuning into the playoffs. Which are otherwise devoid of local teams most years.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I would love to see them get their way – but there won't be any Calgary Flames in another decade if they do, because the franchise will not survive without fans and the fans won't buy tickets to a team that gets maybe 50 points in a good year.

The people throwing tantrums because the Flames are not going into a rebuild have no idea how bad things can get. It would be most amusing to watch them find out.

So the Flames have less patient and loyal fans than the Senators, Wings, and Kings?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by cannon7

And this, in a nutshell, is why Canadian hockey markets don't need to be truly competitive. Canadians will take a crap product and like it. Even the broadcasts are crap. Canadians watch anyway.

Meanwhile a Canadian team will come out of nowhere every 4-5 years just so Canadians don't stop tuning into the playoffs. Which are otherwise devoid of local teams most years.

This pretty much aligns with the odds of having 7 of 32 teams, no?

[CroFlames]

Lets see...

Don't rebuild, miss the playoffs.

Rebuild, miss the playoffs.

May as well rebuild (or retool) and at least build some potential for future years. After about 25 years of losing, I'm ready for the Flames to be the next Bruins, Sharks, Caps, or Pens.

I need some sustained success, and frankly I feel like they owe me.

[Goriders]

I’m not really in the full rebuild camp. But I do think a rebuild of the core needs to happen this offseason. Players I would include in the group that needs to be shaken up would be:

Tkachuk
Monahan
Giordano
Gaudreau
Dube

If 2 to 3 of them are moved in the expansion draft or through trades I don’t think it would be a bad thing.

The bottom 6 forwards could all be moved in my mind. Only ones I would keep being Backlund and Ryan. Lucic was a good veteran presence last year. If he stayed I wouldn’t be unhappy.

So not sure if the above constitutes a “rebuild” “retool” or a “shuffle. But I’d be onboard with something like that.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

This pretty much aligns with the odds of having 7 of 32 teams, no?

No, they should be winning it every 4-5 seasons.

Finals appearances should be double that, so every 2-3 years on average.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Itse

No, they should be winning it every 4-5 seasons.

Finals appearances should be double that, so every 2-3 years on average.

Concentration of Canadian teams in the Pacific and Atlantic divisions hurts the averages. 3 teams in the Pacific are each trying to keep the others out of the POs.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Itse

No, they should be winning it every 4-5 seasons.

Finals appearances should be double that, so every 2-3 years on average.

All things being equal (huge assumption)

The chances of a Canadian team (or any specific group of 7 teams) winning the SC over a 5 year period is 70.89%

1- (25/32**5) this is based on the chance of them not winning in any one year being 25/32

The chance of a Canadian team winning the SC over a 10 year period is 91.5 %

The chance of a Canadian team winning the SC over a 20 year period is 99.28 %


The Chance of Canadian team coming out of the west in any 1 year is 25% (4/16) not making to the final 75%

The chance of a Canadian team making it to the finals from the west over a 5 year period is 76.29 %

from the east 64.59 %