Tear it down? Can this fanbase get behind a rebuild?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

By a whole season do you mean all next season?

I mean one full season from the date Sutter was hired. Let's say, by the 2022 trade deadline, since that's a convenient cutoff date.

[Saqe]

I think they'll be better under Sutter and probably make the playoffs. Maybe they'll even surprise in the regular season and be one of the top 3-4 teams in the conference. But everyone knows that this team misses the big horses come playoff time, Gio was the only one but isn't what he used to be.



And that really is the worst case scenario. Any kind of success, even if it's just the regular season, will give a reason not to tear it down for a rebuild. And the cycle of mediocrity will continue.

[CliffFletcher]

The Athletic just published a ranking of NHL franchises post-lockout success. Using a formula based on playoff appearances and series victories, the Flames are tied with a bunch other franchises (including Buffalo and Edmonton) at 23rd, with only four franchises ranked lower (Columbus, Arizona, Toronto, Florida).

That’s the proud legacy of success this team is clinging to.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I can't see the fans of Calgary getting behind a rebuild. The fans can't stand a single losing season, how are they going to take a decade of futility before the team (hopefully) exits the rebuild and enters the ranks of a contender? The fans' interest would go elsewhere quickly and season ticket sales would dry up. Rebuilds are no guarantee for success, and years of losing - and I mean serious losing where 25-30 wins during a season is a high point - is likely to destroy support amongst the fanbase. It's easy to say you would accept it until you have to live through it. It's kind of like having money. You tell yourself you could do without it until you have to face that reality. Then you realize how hard it is and how much you never want to experience that discomfort again. Losing sucks and all you have to do is look at the inactivity on the board after a losing season. The fans would drift away and many of them may never come back. The team can't afford that.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I can't see the fans of Calgary getting behind a rebuild. The fans can't stand a single losing season, how are they going to take a decade of futility before the team (hopefully) exits the rebuild and enters the ranks of a contender? The fans' interest would go elsewhere quickly and season ticket sales would dry up. Rebuilds are no guarantee for success, and years of losing - and I mean serious losing where 25-30 wins during a season is a high point - is likely to destroy support amongst the fanbase. It's easy to say you would accept it until you have to live through it. It's kind of like having money. You tell yourself you could do without it until you have to face that reality. Then you realize how hard it is and how much you never want to experience that discomfort again. Losing sucks and all you have to do is look at the inactivity on the board after a losing season. The fans would drift away and many of them may never come back. The team can't afford that.

I think you and the owners are on the same page.

[gvitaly]

I think a rebuild is the best way to go. However, all I am asking is for the team to show me a potential. The team needs to be building towards something. It can be done using player movement, and/or adjustments.

I want the Flames to be a hard team to play against. I want the team to start on time, and not give up the momentum as soon as they get scored on. I want this team to be able to claw back into games. That’s why the Hartley Flames were such an exciting product. You can be the worst team on the ice, but you need to play like you want it more than the opposition.

[troutman]

I don't care what they call it - just always keep 1st round pick, and try to add more.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't care what they call it - just always keep 1st round pick, and try to add more.

It's called proper asset management. How Treliving does not do a sell off at the deadline each year is crazy. Recoup those extra picks and keep the system well stocked. We're hurting because there is no depth in the minors. Proper asset management keeps that hamster wheel turning.

[Roof-Daddy]

Asset management is not the Flames strong suit.

I wonder what the prospect cupboard might look like had they not dealt all this picks for Hamonic and instead of hanging onto Brodie they would have traded him for picks despite being a bubble team.

But then I guess we wouldn't have had all that playoff success to fondly look back on the last few seasons.

[herashak]

Tank 2023, That probably means 2/3 of Gaudreau/Monahan/Backlund are gone

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Asset management is not the Flames strong suit.

I wonder what the prospect cupboard might look like had they not dealt all this picks for Hamonic and instead of hanging onto Brodie they would have traded him for picks despite being a bubble team.

But then I guess we wouldn't have had all that playoff success to fondly look back on the last few seasons.

Considering the Flames came close to extending Brodie I am not upset they let him walk without trading him but the Hamonic deal absolutely killed the rebuild. To give up 3 high quality assets for a bottom pairing Dman who did nothing but crater the value of the partner he played with. Brodie was public enemy number 1 after his year with Hamonic. Hanifin has looked unbelievably better when paired with Andersson or Tanev. Tanev elevated him to a level where he could be a top pairing guy but when he was with Hamonic he looked borderline bottom pairing at times.

The Flames would likely have Noah Dobson (he slid a little in the draft so I assume the Flames would have also picked him) and I would feel a lot better about losing Gio in expansion if we had him in our system

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Asset management is not the Flames strong suit.

I wonder what the prospect cupboard might look like had they not dealt all this picks for Hamonic and instead of hanging onto Brodie they would have traded him for picks despite being a bubble team.

But then I guess we wouldn't have had all that playoff success to fondly look back on the last few seasons.

We’d be looking at a Noah Dobson or a Oliver Wahlstrom on this team, both needs. I’m still upset about that trade.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I can't see the fans of Calgary getting behind a rebuild. The fans can't stand a single losing season, how are they going to take a decade of futility before the team (hopefully) exits the rebuild and enters the ranks of a contender? The fans' interest would go elsewhere quickly and season ticket sales would dry up. Rebuilds are no guarantee for success, and years of losing - and I mean serious losing where 25-30 wins during a season is a high point - is likely to destroy support amongst the fanbase. It's easy to say you would accept it until you have to live through it. It's kind of like having money. You tell yourself you could do without it until you have to face that reality. Then you realize how hard it is and how much you never want to experience that discomfort again. Losing sucks and all you have to do is look at the inactivity on the board after a losing season. The fans would drift away and many of them may never come back. The team can't afford that.

I've given up on this team long ago because of the perpetual mediocrity, and I'm sure I'm not alone. I'm not giving this franchise another dime until they start to prove that they actually care about building a proper team and not trying to wing it every year in hopes of a cinderella playoff run

[1qqaaz]

If the Flames ever won a lottery, which will never happen in any of our lifetimes (due to a fear of rebuilding and perpetual bad luck), I'm sure the seats would sell pretty quickly.

My parents cancelled the season tickets a few years ago, but I'm sure they'd sign up again if someone like Wright, Bedard, or Michkov were in the organization.

[Robbob]

I am in a retool mindset, but only because of the current situation (Sutter, Markstrom, age of some of the players). One more year all the players will have the same or more value.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

We’d be looking at a Noah Dobson or a Oliver Wahlstrom on this team, both needs. I’m still upset about that trade.

We would?

I suppose in your alternate universe the Flames end up exactly as they did. I tend to think had the Flames lost out on Hamonic to the Leafs, the other team that was chasing, then the Flames would have made other moves and who knows where they end up in the standings. Who knows if they even trade the picks they did.

[ricardodw]

If there was a 100% swap of the Flames players and Prospects and the Senators players and prospects would you be able to support:

Ottawa Depth Chart

This year draft #10, #38, #41

They went to the 7th game with Pittsburgh to go to the SC final in 2016-17

Summer of 2017 faced a similar situation as Calgary is looking at today. They delayed their rebuild a couple of years hanging on to their fan favorites. They only went to full rebuild when forced to.

Stone 2 years from UFA (traded Feb 25, 2019)

Karlsson 2 years from UFA (traded Sept 13, 2018)

Turris 1 year from UFA (traded Nov 5, 2017) - panic trade for Duchene giving up Turris and #4 OA 2019 were able to get 2019 #19 OA from Columbus for Duchene ... Bad move in a re-build Turris for any first or solid prospect) would have helped the rebuild.

Pageau requested Arbitration 2017 signed for 3 years (traded feb 24, 2020)

[Vinny01]

The Sens rebuild hinges on Stutzle and Sanderson in my opinion. I didn’t like the Sanderson pick at 5th overall but Stutzle was the obvious choice. If those players do not pan out I think the Sens rebuild fails. They have already paid Chabot and need to pay Tkachuk this year.

Add in a cheap owner I really don’t think the Sens are building anything special.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I can't see the fans of Calgary getting behind a rebuild. The fans can't stand a single losing season, how are they going to take a decade of futility before the team (hopefully) exits the rebuild and enters the ranks of a contender? The fans' interest would go elsewhere quickly and season ticket sales would dry up. Rebuilds are no guarantee for success, and years of losing - and I mean serious losing where 25-30 wins during a season is a high point - is likely to destroy support amongst the fanbase. It's easy to say you would accept it until you have to live through it. It's kind of like having money. You tell yourself you could do without it until you have to face that reality. Then you realize how hard it is and how much you never want to experience that discomfort again. Losing sucks and all you have to do is look at the inactivity on the board after a losing season. The fans would drift away and many of them may never come back. The team can't afford that.

I think there is a lot of truth in this. I think the Flames organization understands their market and voluntarily entering a rebuild is not a palatable business proposition, otherwise it probably would have happened by now. I’m also willing to suggest that the only time it has happened in the past 10-20 years the Flames preemptively got out of as soon as the possibly could with the first Hamilton trade.

It is no coincidence that this team has never drafted in the top 3 and only once in the top 5.

[dino7c]

Their goal tending for the Sens is also a massive question mark