2021 NHL Draft

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes it was bad evaluation made by men that thought they were the smartest in the room. I think the Flames moves last year to trade down and still nab Zary were astute and never said otherwise.

Then it's the scouting that's off with Janko, and not the decision to trade down. Of course, the Flames could have not traded down and picked Janko at their original spot and that would have been even worse.

[Jiri Hrdina]

There were reports at the time of other team's interest - including if I recall New Jersey.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

There were reports at the time of other team's interest - including if I recall New Jersey.

Well, if so, they'd be going off book as well.

https://www.coppernblue.com/2011/9/2...ies-list-added

https://thehockeywriters.com/final-t...or-2012-draft/

https://thehockeywriters.com/2012-nh...-ones-top-120/

[Jiri Hrdina]

Again there is no list.
There is no book.
Except what teams have.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again there is no list.
There is no book.
Except what teams have.

So there are lists and books.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again there is no list.
There is no book.
Except what teams have.

No, but when every draft ranking has a player listed 40-70 and he goes 22nd, it's hard to imagine that team hasn't made a huge gamble. Scouts pay attention to these reports. I just don't think Janko was some hot commodity.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Impossible to know of course, but what makes you think that, when no draft rankings had him anywhere near the first round?

That's false

Positive reports seem to have him even higher on some draft boards. Former Flames GM Craig Button has him as the 14th ranked prospect in his latest rankings at TSN. A few mock drafts have him slated to go mid-first round in the draft.

https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/20...ospect-profile

[Jiri Hrdina]

Interesting to look back at that poll that was done pre 2012 draft:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...stian+Collberg

What this shows is the following
- Jankowski was enough on the radar to be included in the poll.
- The winner in the poll was Collberg - who was even a bigger bust
- I do recall for a few years after - the real regret seemed to be not taking Maata. Now it is more about Terevainen, Wilson and Vasilevsky - who aren't included in the poll. I think it was largely assumed Terevainen would be gone. I don't recall why Wilson and Vasilevsky were excluded

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No, but when every draft ranking has a player listed 40-70 and he goes 22nd, it's hard to imagine that team hasn't made a huge gamble. Scouts pay attention to these reports. I just don't think Janko was some hot commodity.

If I was to guess I'd assume Button and the scouts had him listed as interesting, and worth keeping tabs on. That doesn't mean you take him way early (first round), but a player that they need to keep an eye on because the team had him higher than the consensus.

Then Weisbod came along, did the winter blizzard drive, fell in love with the kid, and then insisted they take him with their first.

I'd assume every year players are identified that the team has higher than the consensus, and then you decide when to take them. With Gaudreau they went with the fourth. They missed out on Kucherov by delaying him to the 5th etc.

And honestly Jankowski made the show, so moving him up the list was astute ... but probably better to use their second or acquire an additional second than take him that far up the list.

Derek Morris was a similar story, they they got very right.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No, but when every draft ranking has a player listed 40-70 and he goes 22nd, it's hard to imagine that team hasn't made a huge gamble. Scouts pay attention to these reports. I just don't think Janko was some hot commodity.

They only pay attention to them in comparison to their own team and its evaluations.

These guys watch X many players each year, then give the their evaluations to the head of scouting who then compiles them all into one master list. Generally in groups after the top few who are in their own levels.

Those final lists will differentiate massively from team team...aside from the top group of 3 or 8 or whatever number that year holds.

What CSS or redline or Mckenzie say, matters not one iota to any single team. Thats why teams (most anyhow) spend a small fortune (in non-covid eras), in salaries and expenses to get eyes on all these young guys. So they have their own evaluations. What some teams covet in player, another team sees as less important. Character, family stability, fitness, desire, work habits...all things that scouts work on in compiling their final submissions before the draft. It takes weeks to do this, and once done then maybe some of them will look at the others to see what they say.

So no, there really isnt a master list other than the one each team takes to the draft table with them which is different at every table.

With Jankowski, I agree with you, it was very likely a reach to take him where they did vs where other teams saw him. Sometimes though you get a scout who is so sold on a player he can make the GM change his mind about what to do in their spot and maybe that was part of things as well in this case.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Then Weisbod came along, did the winter blizzard drive, fell in love with the kid, and then insisted they take him with their first.

John Weisbrod on Jankowski;

I’ve said it to our scouts all week long — he’s Joe Nieuwendyk.”

Supposedly his fingers were all over the Sieloff pick as well. It has been said that after 2012 his influence on the draft was reduced. To be fair Jankowski had the raw size and some skill but the desire and motor just aren't there. I just don't think project players should be picked in the 1st round.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

John Weisbrod on Jankowski;



Supposedly his fingers were all over the Sieloff pick as well. It has been said that after 2012 his influence on the draft was reduced. To be fair Jankowski had the raw size and some skill but the desire and motor just aren't there. I just don't think project players should be picked in the 1st round.

For sure.

But for a guy that was supposed to go late second or into the third they did a good job of identifying an NHL player.

Just shouldn't have moved him that far up the list.

Over zealous.

[FCAV]

Just a heads up. We've dropped our Final ranking on the website. It goes 300 prospects deep so you might want to give yourself a little time...

We'll have a full breakdown of our first round in the morning.

https://nhlentrydraft.com/rankings/

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

For sure.

But for a guy that was supposed to go late second or into the third they did a good job of identifying an NHL player.

Just shouldn't have moved him that far up the list.

Over zealous.

Right, subject to my being corrected above about some reports IMO he could have been had in the second round, in which case in an alternate universe Calgary has Vasilevsky, Hertl, Wilson, Teravainen or Ceci and still took Janko. And if NJ grabbed him, oh well.

Of course, in all likelihood Calgary takes Zemgus or Lughton.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Right, subject to my being corrected above about some reports IMO he could have been had in the second round, in which case in an alternate universe Calgary has Vasilevsky, Hertl, Wilson, Teravainen or Ceci and still took Janko. And if NJ grabbed him, oh well.

Of course, in all likelihood Calgary takes Zemgus or Lughton.

Again the #1 vote getter in the pre draft poll was Sebastian Collberg

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have no idea about any of these players. I hope CGY adds guys who have that quick-twitch athleticism (dynamic: hands, speed, shiftiness, agility, burst etc.) in addition to their standard IQ, compete etc. Explosive and powerful guys for the middle of the ice or anchoring D pairs.

[CKPThunder]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There is probably a very good chance the Flames pass on Sillinger if he's available at 12 and I'm okay with that providing they don't go off the board with a player that was rated late 1st round or 2nd round. Reaching from the consensus usually leads to busts as the only player that really comes to mind for me that was picked considerably higher than consensus rankings and turned into a very good player is Scheifele.

I think the example that comes to my mind is Peter Forsberg. Went 6th overall but I believe he was ranked as a low first rounder or high second rounder going in. I remember the shocked look on his face when he was picked.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Hampus Lindholm is an example. Went much higher than projected at #6 and has worked out
The Wings found a gem with Moritz Seider - who is still a prospect but a damn good one who wasn't expected to go nearly that high.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Hockeyprospects final rankings are out.

https://hockeyprospect.com/2021-nhl-...now-available/

Very different rankings, including within the Flames range of picks - but I do consider this to be amongst the more reputable sources.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Hockeyprospects final rankings are out.

https://hockeyprospect.com/2021-nhl-...now-available/

Very different rankings, including within the Flames range of picks - but I do consider this to be amongst the more reputable sources.

Sillinger at 5 is the highest I have seen him ranked . Hughes at 11. Wouldn’t mind him falling to 12.