Ongoing Residential Schools Tragedy Discussion

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Wouldn't it be nice if Canadians cared as much about Indigenous People as they do about inanimate objects like buildings and statues?

Is the goal to make Canadians care more?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Wouldn't it be nice if Canadians cared as much about Indigenous People as they do about inanimate objects like buildings and statues?

I'm pretty sure you can be in favour of real reconciliation with Indigenous People and also be opposed to the violent destruction of property.

I would think most people would be opposed to both racism and violence.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GGG

When is the last time anyone in Canada voted on religious issues.

Probably whenever the most recent election was.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'm pretty sure you can be in favour of real reconciliation with Indigenous People and also be opposed to the violent destruction of property.

One can argue that if your means includes violence then your cause can not be reconciliation by definition.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Is the goal to make Canadians care more?

If we want to build a better country, yes.

If your house had a dilapidated and crappy fence all busted up and looked like ####, you have a choice. You can either fix it, and make your house nicer to live in and by extension make the area you live in nicer or you can not give a ####.

I know which place I would rather live in, if you can afford it. And we can. It’s just what people prioritize.

As much as Jagmeet Singh is borderline a communist idiot, he was bang on when he said (paraphrasing) what if Toronto or Vancouver or Calgary didn’t have clean drinking water? It’s not even a question that would ever get asked. And yet here we are… wondering how we can fix these complex issues when we still have rampant racism across the nation today. We should demand more of ourselves and our political leaders. So we can live in a better country.

So yeah, we should all care more.

[CliffFletcher]

The peculiar demographics of this forum are showing again. 8 per cent of Canadian are atheist, and 5 per cent agnostic. Surely people who subscribe to an outlook shared by such a small portion of the population should be grateful we live in a tolerant, pluralistic society.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ion-in-canada/

[Fuzz]

That's an incredibly skewed way to report the percent. For those that take Cliff at his word, he left out the 16% that responded "nothing in particular." So the real number is 29%, but even that is skewed by all the Christians who probably responded "Christian" because they were forced to go as kids, but fail to actually do anything that would be considered religious, like going to church or praying(for things other than a Flames win or Oilers loss).

Pretty deceptive stuff, Cliff. Some people here expect better of you.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by SebC

Probably whenever the most recent election was.

Shoot that was supposed to say indigenous issues

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's an incredibly skewed way to report the percent. For those that take Cliff at his word, he left out the 16% that responded "nothing in particular." So the real number is 29%, but even that is skewed by all the Christians who probably responded "Christian" because they were forced to go as kids, but fail to actually do anything that would be considered religious, like going to church or praying(for things other than a Flames win or Oilers loss).

Pretty deceptive stuff, Cliff. Some people here expect better of you.

Deceptive? I quoted the actual numbers from the poll. And ‘nothing in particular’ in these sorts of polls include people who believe in god but don’t identify with a particular faith. 67 per cent of Canadians believe god or a higher power exists.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...the-faith-poll

My point stands that people who believe denunciation of religion is the norm or would be a popular movement in Canada travel in very narrow and homogenous social circles. Forums like this are far, far from representative of society.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's an incredibly skewed way to report the percent. For those that take Cliff at his word, he left out the 16% that responded "nothing in particular." So the real number is 29%, but even that is skewed by all the Christians who probably responded "Christian" because they were forced to go as kids, but fail to actually do anything that would be considered religious, like going to church or praying(for things other than a Flames win or Oilers loss).

Pretty deceptive stuff, Cliff. Some people here expect better of you.

Don’t like how cliff apparently skews it then you skew it yourself eh?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

67 per cent of Canadians believe god or a higher power exists.

Which would seem to suggest that 33% don't, or are agnostic, which is... quite a lot.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If we want to build a better country, yes.

If your house had a dilapidated and crappy fence all busted up and looked like ####, you have a choice. You can either fix it, and make your house nicer to live in and by extension make the area you live in nicer or you can not give a ####.

I know which place I would rather live in, if you can afford it. And we can. It’s just what people prioritize.

As much as Jagmeet Singh is borderline a communist idiot, he was bang on when he said (paraphrasing) what if Toronto or Vancouver or Calgary didn’t have clean drinking water? It’s not even a question that would ever get asked. And yet here we are… wondering how we can fix these complex issues when we still have rampant racism across the nation today. We should demand more of ourselves and our political leaders. So we can live in a better country.

So yeah, we should all care more.

Yep I totally agree. I just think burning and defacing churches will get us there. In fact it likely just will make things worse.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Deceptive? I quoted the actual numbers from the poll. And ‘nothing in particular’ in these sorts of polls include people who believe in god but don’t identify with a particular faith. 67 per cent of Canadians believe god or a higher power exists.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...the-faith-poll

Which would mean 33% don't....

And then there is this...

The privately faithful, 30 per cent of respondents, “are people who actually believe in God, believe in heaven, believe in an afterlife,” said Angus Reid, the institute’s founder and chairman. “They have largely not been involved in organized religion. They will go to funerals and weddings and that sort of thing, but their faith is largely a private matter, and it’s really driven by their prayer. They pray on a regular basis.”

So that's another chunk of people who want no part of organized religion. Basically 21% go to Church(or similar) regularly, if I'm interpreting that correctly. So in reality, that's much different than what you were trying to present in your previous post(that CP is some bastion of athiestic hedonism). Clearly you are incorrect in regard to the rest of Canada.

I'm far less concerned with what people believe in their own homes. Organized religion is the damaging aspect, particularly in regard to the subject of this thread.

[Two Fivenagame]

All this rain is going to make it more difficult to burn catholic churches to the ground.

Hopefully the arsonists will resort to a safer means of destruction.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

All this rain is going to make it more difficult to burn catholic churches to the ground.

Hopefully the arsonists will resort to a safer means of destruction.

Paying off the seeder plane pilots.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Vandalism of churches and other monuments is totally unacceptable.

But what's acceptable and unacceptable in history? I say that not claiming that this is or isn't acceptable, but historically there have been many acts that were "annoying" or "unacceptable" by the general public at the time.

But history also shows us that conversation and debate is not enough to push for change in many cases.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

In a healthy society, this would be a widely shared view.

But what's a healthy society, though? One that accepts any wrongs without uprisings or "unacceptable challenge"? I disagree entirely with this premise.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The peculiar demographics of this forum are showing again. 8 per cent of Canadian are atheist, and 5 per cent agnostic. Surely people who subscribe to an outlook shared by such a small portion of the population should be grateful we live in a tolerant, pluralistic society.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ion-in-canada/

That is absurd and you know what you did with those stats. Jesus Christ, man. THE PECULIAR DEMOGRAPHICS OF CALGARY PUCK!!!!!

[troutman]

Calgary church considers leaving vandalism untouched to acknowledge residential school system
https://globalnews.ca/news/7999297/c...medium=twitter

Grace Presbyterian in the southwest community of Connaught was one of at least 10 churches hit overnight Thursday. Vandals splashed red paint across the front doors.

Minister Jake Van Pernis said he doesn’t consider it a hate crime, instead labeling it an act of protest and grief. He says the church is considering leaving it up in recognition of the lasting trauma of residential schools.

“In grief, there’s anger, frustration, trauma that we need to recognize,” he said Friday. “We need to work with the Indigenous community to start toward healing and work toward reconciliation in ways that are meaningful and good.”

[jayswin]

Yes, excellent response.