Ongoing Residential Schools Tragedy Discussion

[DFO]

Article about the Catholic Church inaction

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...urch-1.6086030

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Mr Coffee already mentioned it, but here’s a link. This one’s fairly close to home for me, it’s unbelievable. Unfortunately with how many of these schools were across Canada I think we’re going to hear about a lot more of these. It’s hard to fathom.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1410290272630722560

[Ozy_Flame]

Man I was thinking the other day about St. Eugene's Mission when people were talking about residential school graves. I knew of the Catholic Church presence at that location, I golf there often. Continued heartbreaking discoveries, I'm at a loss for words.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Perhaps if the Catholic Church apologized and took ownership for their actions of the past, these retaliatory acts may have been prevented.

The other churches involved offered apologies. The catholic church's indifference certainly hasn't helped anything.

It's highly disappointing Pope Francis hasn't issued an apology, but it sounds like one is coming. His recent "closeness" tweet was an empty gesture.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nat...isit-1.6084245

National Indigenous leaders will meet with Pope Francis at the Vatican in December to set the stage for a formal papal apology in Canada for the Roman Catholic Church's role in residential schools, according to the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops (CCCB)

However, it is worth noting that Catholic Church did apologize for the schools, back in 2009 https://www.ctvnews.ca/pope-apologiz...hools-1.393911:

Pope Benedict has said he is sorry for the physical and sexual abuse and "deplorable" conduct at Catholic church-run Canadian residential schools.

"As a gesture of reconciliation... it was important to hear from the one person who does speak for the Catholic Church around the world, to hear him say 'I am sorry. I feel for what you people have suffered. We hope that we can turn the page and move toward a better future together.'"

Phil Fontaine, national chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said he appreciated the apology from the Church.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

On the other hand, I don't struggle at all to see how this happened.

I have my doubts that children were being systematically murdered. At least on a large scale.

In all likelihood, most deaths were the result of negligence. Disease, poor health, malnourishment, unsafe living conditions and, yes, some due to outright physical abuse from the caretakers at the schools. However, I honestly doubt that was the leading cause of death.

The fact they are buried in unmarked graves is equally unsurprising. If you're willing to treat a child like a meaningless savage whose life doesn't count for much, willing to stuff them into cramped, dirty, diseased living conditions with no access to health care or medicine, you're probably not going to show a lot of respect when it comes time to bury them when they've succumbed to the rampant disease.

I'd also venture a guess that in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, unmarked graves were quite a bit more common than they are today.

To really know the abject conditions these children lived under, one has to read the stories of the survivors. One of the worst residential schools was called the Mush Hole. Russell Moses attended that school. You can read about the school at the link below.

Also, there is a link of a letter that Russell Moses wrote about his experiences. You really must read that letter, hard as it might be.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ticle24767645/


These children were treated as "its", as "nothings" in life and that kind of treatment continued with their death.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Perhaps if the Catholic Church apologized and took ownership for their actions of the past, these retaliatory acts may have been prevented.

The other churches involved offered apologies. The catholic church's indifference certainly hasn't helped anything.

Sure...who is saying otherwise?

[timun]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

However, it is worth noting that Catholic Church did apologize for the schools, back in 2009 https://www.ctvnews.ca/pope-apologiz...hools-1.393911:

It was a very carefully crafted non-apology:

Given the sufferings that some indigenous children experienced in the Canadian Residential School system, the Holy Father expressed his sorrow at the anguish caused by the deplorable conduct of some members of the Church and he offered his sympathy and prayerful solidarity. His Holiness emphasized that acts of abuse cannot be tolerated in society. He prayed that all those affected would experience healing, and he encouraged First Nations Peoples to continue to move forward with renewed hope.

The statement very, very deliberately skirts the issue of the church itself having any culpability. Contrast this with the Anglican Church's apology, issued almost 30 years ago (bolded and red are my emphasis):

A message from the Primate, Archbishop Michael Peers, to the National Native Convocation Minaki, Ontario, Friday, August 6, 1993

My Brothers and Sisters:

Together here with you I have listened as you have told your stories of the residential schools.

I have heard the voices that have spoken of pain and hurt experienced in the schools, and of the scars which endure to this day.

I have felt shame and humiliation as I have heard of suffering inflicted by my people, and as I think of the part our church played in that suffering.

I am deeply conscious of the sacredness of the stories that you have told and I hold in the highest honour those who have told them.

I have heard with admiration the stories of people and communities who have worked at healing, and I am aware of how much healing is needed.

I also know that I am in need of healing, and my own people are in need of healing, and our church is in need of healing. Without that healing, we will continue the same attitudes that have done such damage in the past.

I also know that healing takes a long time, both for people and for communities.

I also know that it is God who heals, and that God can begin to heal when we open ourselves, our wounds, our failures and our shame to God. I want to take one step along that path here and now.

I accept and I confess before God and you, our failures in the residential schools. We failed you. We failed ourselves. We failed God.

I am sorry, more than I can say, that we were part of a system which took you and your children from home and family.

I am sorry, more than I can say, that we tried to remake you in our image, taking from you your language and the signs of your identity.

I am sorry, more than I can say, that in our schools so many were abused physically, sexually, culturally and emotionally.

On behalf of the Anglican Church of Canada, I present our apology.

I do this at the desire of those in the Church like the National Executive Council, who know some of your stories and have asked me to apologize.

I do this in the name of many who do not know these stories.

And I do this even though there are those in the church who cannot accept the fact that these things were done in our name.

As soon as I am home, I shall tell all the bishops what I have said, and ask them to co-operate with me and with the National Executive Council in helping this healing at the local level. Some bishops have already begun this work.

I know how often you have heard words which have been empty because they have not been accompanied by actions. I pledge to you my best efforts, and the efforts of our church at the national level, to walk with you along the path of God’s healing.

The work of the Residential Schools Working Group, the video, the commitment and the effort of the Special Assistants to the Primate for this work, the grants available for healing conferences, are some signs of that pledge, and we shall work for others.

This is Friday, the day of Jesus’ suffering and death. It is the anniversary of the first atomic bomb at Hiroshima, one of the most terrible injuries ever inflicted by one people on another.

But even atomic bombs and Good Friday are not the last word. God raised Jesus from the dead as a sign that life and wholeness are the everlasting and unquenchable purpose of God.

Thank you for listening to me.

[undercoverbrother]

Catholics....................FFS

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...tion-1.6082935

Residential school survivor Rick Daniels and his wife, Judy Greyeyes, live in a small apartment just a few kilometres from Saskatoon's towering $28.5-million Holy Family Cathedral.

The cathedral features solar-powered stained glass windows, a carved granite altar, seating for 2,000 people and a steel cross that sits 53 metres above ground, dominating the suburban Prairie skyline. The church opened in 2012 following a massive, multi-year fundraising campaign.

Roman Catholic churches in Saskatoon and across Canada had also signed an agreement promising to raise $25 million to compensate Daniels and tens of thousands of other survivors for the emotional, physical and sexual abuse, malnutrition, cultural shaming and systemic violations of basic human rights suffered in Catholic-run residential schools.

The story was similar in other cities. Canada's 12 million Catholics donated less than $4 million of the promised $25 million — roughly 30 cents per person.

revolting.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I like blaming Catholics because it helps me feel less culpable for the actions of my government and the current levels of squalor that I have allowed indigenous Canadians to live in. Otherwise I might have to face the actions of our government and the lack of accountability we/they have shown when it comes to indigenous well being. It also allows me to continue to ignore the issue and just blame the big bad Catholics. Especially the nuns. But especially the priests.

A boogeyman, or boogeymen, if you will.

[Bill Bumface]

Apologies if this is a repost, I haven't made it through the entire thread:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1408923263938433026

[CaptainCrunch]

I do get what you're saying, but I'm more cynical and even Justin sitting there with the messaging towards the church is a cynical operation to me. I'm no believer in the church, I left it decades ago. But at the same time, our government trying to frame the message that this is the church its the church man, and they need to show action, is just a political operation. Our government has a huge part in this, Justin's father had a part in it, PM's going back through time had a part in formulating the policy that was ececuted by the Church as an agent.



What makes it even more cynical to me is that Governments talk a great game in terms of reconciliation, or making things right or closing the gap, but its words with little to no action, with Minister after Minister failing in the file or treating it as a summer camp job.



So does the Church need to apologies, make right, do what needs to be done. Absofrackinglutely. But the Government needs to stand right beside the church and do the same thing, because this act of evil, wasn't the church's alone, it wasn't the government's alone, it was both of them and all of them.



And really, an apology to me, is meaningless, its never sincere because I don't believe that 75% of apologies out there are Sincere. There needs to be real and concrete action, by both of them.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Catholics....................FFS

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...tion-1.6082935



revolting.

How much did you donate?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GGG

How much did you donate?

Nothing, I'm not Catholic and honestly I didn't know about. How many people even know about it? I suspect their efforts were piss poor.

I would be willing to donate if that helped move the dial on reconciliation.

I also didn't hire top lawyers to wiggle out of paying.

Instead, church officials hired one of Canada's top lawyers, who, in a private court hearing, successfully argued that the country's Catholic churches had tried their best and had no more to give.

How much did you donate?

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Catholics....................FFS

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...tion-1.6082935



revolting.

LoL!! Wow, so much high morality and atonement being shown by the church in this article.

Just a 28 million dollar beacon of incorruptible purity.

Wonder if that one will burn down.....

[calumniate]

https://www.ranker.com/list/gruesome.../aaron-edwards

They're certainly well-trained #######s

[Tron_fdc]

If we are talking about reparations I’d think removing the church’s tax free status to help fund it is a good start.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

If we are talking about reparations I’d think removing the church’s tax free status to help fund it is a good start.

Wasn’t there already a massive class action that was for the residential schools a number of years ago? I’m not trying to downplay this, but I think that was already done?

[Engine09]

Originally Posted by Bs&Cs

This post just reveals a major lack of empathy and understanding for why people have faith. I mean, you don't even seem to understand what a priest actually does in their role.

I think that's part of the problem for the church and religion, we're becoming quite aware of the "role" these priests played in the lives, suffering and deaths of children.

I'm aware what "role" they play, how about from personal experience when I was 10 years old with a high fever, the creepy as hell, ghoul of a priest made a visit to pray over me. Chanting magical incantations and prayers like that would make a bit of difference except for scaring the s**t out of me.

Anyone want to discuss the difference between denominations and how we need to understand what priests, preachers and evangelists do? Who gives a s**t, it's all made up. You have absolutely no evidence for such outlandish magical and superstitious beliefs. Having these conversations is infuriating because people speak as though this crap is real.

These past few weeks reading these stories have been brutal. My mother is Cree and told me stories of going to a Catholic school, having the nuns wash her mouth with soap if she was caught speaking Cree. She was one of the lucky ones, just a regular Catholic school and not residential. What factors played in to her not being a victim? I easily could not be here to type this and anger the faithful all so eager to defend their flimsy beliefs and defend the church at all costs.

Stories of abuse at residential schools were common knowledge where I grew up but the generation before me spared the details. They didn't cry about it, they didn't dwell and now seems clear they were protecting everyone from sharing the memory.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Nothing, I'm not Catholic and honestly I didn't know about. How many people even know about it? I suspect their efforts were piss poor.

I would be willing to donate if that helped move the dial on reconciliation.

I also didn't hire top lawyers to wiggle out of paying.



How much did you donate?

You appeared to be blaming Catholics not the Catholic chrurch so I assumed you judged Canadians in the same manner for Canadas failure. Various Canadian governments at least one of which you would have voted for over time have hired lawyers to get out of meeting treaty requirements. Cecils post really nails it. It’s always easier to blame Sky Daddy.

If your post was just about the Church than that’s reasonable but then you shouldn’t be using Catholics. Catholics probably represent the greatest portion of the Catholic Churches victims.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

If we are talking about reparations I’d think removing the church’s tax free status to help fund it is a good start.

The only thing I disagree with was my own inference when you said "the church". Why don't we begin taxing every religious group equally.