Ongoing Residential Schools Tragedy Discussion

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Unnaming everything is probably the solution.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

CliffFletcher has the weirdest viewpoints on this topic.

I think Cliff has some of the wisest and most nuanced views on the topic. Most people in here are just repeating the same pablum you would read on social media.

For the record, I don’t really care if we rename a couple schools, but just admit it is the flavour of the moment and it isn’t party of some giant socio-political movement for justice.

That’s Cliff’s point.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by fulham

Pretty much every single person who lived before the 80's has views that would render them ineligible for public praise by the loud minority whom complain about these things.

In Victoria there was a (valid)strong attempt to change the names of many streets, and buildings named after settlers in the 1600's onwards. They tried to replace many with the names of ancient natives chiefs/figures on the west coast. But they ran into the same problem; most of these native figures committed genocide, or enslaved ethnic minorities, and committed severe war crimes against other native tribes in their own quests to dominate.

Man, that sounds like there's nothing that can be done then. I mean here in the Calgary area we do have streets such as 18th street, 17th avenue, Highway 1, Southland Drive etc.

But I guess we're just not cursed into requiring streets to be named after people. It's a blessing I guess, I only wish it could be somehow done elsewhere, but that would be impossible.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by peter12

I think Cliff has some of the wisest and most nuanced views on the topic. Most people in here are just repeating the same pablum you would read on social media.

Lol, of course you do. Cause your King of the Edgelords.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm serious, I wasn't saying it sarcastically.

[afc wimbledon]

On the whole naming everything after the neighbourhood they are in is both more practical (If you know where the Kits neighbourhood is you pretty much know where the school is) if you know where South Van is John Oliver School doesnt tell you a thing

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

I think Cliff has some of the wisest and most nuanced views on the topic. Most people in here are just repeating the same pablum you would read on social media.

For the record, I don’t really care if we rename a couple schools, but just admit it is the flavour of the moment and it isn’t party of some giant socio-political movement for justice.

That’s Cliff’s point.

Thanks, Pete. The rest of us dum dums definitely couldn't glean his point, and it's certainly super original and not at all regurgitated "hur dur virtue-signaling!" messaging from right-wing social media.

We're lucky to have both of you.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Thanks, Pete. The rest of us dum dums definitely couldn't glean his point, and it's certainly super original and not all regurgitated "hur dur virtue-signaling!" messaging from right-wing social media.

We're lucky to have both of you.

He’s not saying that at all.

Look, all I’ve seen you do here is rush around telling people they aren’t saying the right thing or whatever.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by jayswin

And sorry, what do you think people are getting out of it?

The same thing we get out of all public moral gestures - signalling to the rest of the tribe that you can be trusted to uphold its values.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I'm serious, I wasn't saying it sarcastically.

Yeah, I take back what I said. It's not a horrible idea. Naming things after places makes some sense.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

He’s not saying that at all.

Look, all I’ve seen you do here is rush around telling people they aren’t saying the right thing or whatever.

It's absolutely what he's saying. He literally used the term "signaling" in the reply he just posted.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by peter12

He’s not saying that at all.

Look, all I’ve seen you do here is rush around telling people they aren’t saying the right thing or whatever.

He literally just said it on this page, fyi.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by peter12

For the record, I don’t really care if we rename a couple schools, but just admit it is the flavour of the moment and it isn’t party of some giant socio-political movement for justice.

That’s Cliff’s point.

People have wanted a lot of these schools renamed for a long time, and if you’re going to paint everyone with a broad brush you can at least provide something more to substantiate the claim than an opinion. It’s pretty simple, changing the name of the schools most likely helps with reconciliation where as leaving them named as they are really provides no benefit to anyone.

I highly doubt cliff would argue people in the US who oppose the confederate flag are only opposing it because it’s the flavour of the month.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I highly doubt cliff would argue people in the US who oppose the confederate flag are only opposing it because it’s the flavour of the month.

He absolutely would and I believe has.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by jayswin

He literally just said it on this page, fyi.

You're just not getting the nuance, bro.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

You know, Rube, you do this thing where you get all worked up over a topic and then you say "I'm trying to do better", but then you just do it again, posting ten times a page calling people stupid 14 year olds and accusing them of parroting far-right social media. What are you getting out of this?

It's not like Cliff's position on re-naming schools previously named after historical figures with controversial biographies is new or surprising to you. Chill out.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The same thing we get out of all public moral gestures - signalling to the rest of the tribe that you can be trusted to uphold its values.

I think you should probably do a survey on the subject or something. It might be the only way you figure out that not everyone thinks the way you seem to believe they do.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by rubecube

He absolutely would and I believe has.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I stand corrected.

[curves2000]

I really hope this incident and the others that will for sure come out of this investigation are the catalyst for significant change on a go forward basis. This may not be the most politically correct post here but please bare in mind I am not saying this from a point of blame on behalf of First Nations people, but a blame on those in power and how we can best assist and allow FN to thrive. All throughout history we have dozens and dozens of examples of people that have been persecuted, owned, occupied, enslaved and had generally bad things including genocide or attempted genocide etc. A lot of examples of those people thriving, persevering and generally having positive effect over time.

It doesn't seem to happen to Canada and it's relationship with FN people and it needs to. We are so far behind in terms of basic things in 2021 that it's just flat out embarrassing and probably even criminal if we dig in deep.

Please excuse my bluntness but the "business and economy" that has been built around dealing with FN is criminal theft on behalf of those in power, generally governments, NGO's and a lot of white people. It needs to stop!

We could start off by pretty much firing 90+% of anybody who has any sort of employment related to this and be done with them. Across all levels of government we have mountains of mostly white people making good salary, pension and benefit jobs doing virtually nothing than enriching themselves. We are at the point with some of this were even if we threw a trillion dollars at the problem, we would still have issues like poor living conditions, lack of clean water and poor education. Why is this? It's not a funding problem.

We can take the savings from this cleaning house and than directly provide it to FN, allow them best to use their funding and unleash all the BS rules, regulations and laws that we have with them. It is literally absurd what happens.

I recall what Jody Wilson Raybold said about potentially being made FN Minister. She felt she was going to be in charge of just handing out welfare and more chq's .

If we really start to have open and honest conversations about things, we may find that we have a problem with a lot of government type white people trying to protect their own interests. I am already seeing some of it in the news now. Calls for a ton more funding, people looking into more things, more departments in Ottawa and more.

Changes need to happen in a lot of ways, but not the type of changes that those in power want to happen as it isn't in their best interest. The usual tricks being played by the powers at be can't be allowed to happen.

The classic exampled of a suspect contract for something basic that is literally running 10 X the cost, being done poorly and with no rational reason or logic needs to be looked at. Just because questions are needed to be asked, can't be called out as racist so those involved can protect themselves.

We need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves why are we so far behind and what is allowing this poor performance to continue?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

You know, Rube, you do this thing where you get all worked up over a topic and then you say "I'm trying to do better", but then you just do it again, posting ten times a page calling people stupid 14 year olds and accusing them of parroting far-right social media. What are you getting out of this?

I'm trying to get better at not just lashing out at people or attacking their characters over the substance of their arguments. For example, I'm trying not to call people bootlickers anymore just because they're bigger proponents of the free market than. I did duck out of this thread earlier because I was definitely too emotional to be participating in it.

A lack of substance, arrogance, and bad-faith arguments are 100% still fair game though.

Also, I didn't say "far-right," I said right-wing. My point was in response to Peter suggesting that Cliff's talking points were original and not found on social media like the rest of ours, but you and I both know that's not true. He may have not grabbed them from social media, but they're certainly not absent from there.

It's not like Cliff's position on re-naming schools previously named after historical figures with controversial biographies is new or surprising to you. Chill out.

If the guy feels the need to repeat his views on it every time the topic comes up, I'm going to point out how flimsy and silly it is.