Brad Treliving needs to go

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Correct. But I do recall when gio and Hamonic went down Treliving said that changed their deadline plans.

Forbort and Gustaffson were OK additions for what we paid for them. Problem was whether Gio and Hamonic were healthy or not there is no way they should have been looked at as any kind of solution that would move the needle or turn this team into a contender.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

Forbort and Gustaffson were OK additions for what we paid for them. Problem was whether Gio and Hamonic were healthy or not there is no way they should have been looked at as any kind of solution that would move the needle or turn this team into a contender.

I don’t think they were under the impression Gustavson or Forbort were going to push them into contention, it was more about biding their time until Gio and Hamonic were back and healthy.

I would imagine their intention was to get into the playoffs. They made moves to give them the best shot they felt that would help them accomplish that.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I don’t think they were under the impression Gustavson or Forbort were going to push them into contention, it was more about biding their time until Gio and Hamonic were back and healthy.

I would imagine their intention was to get into the playoffs. They made moves to give them the best shot they felt that would help them accomplish that.

I don't disagree, but it didn't work as when the season shut down the Flames weren't in a playoff spot and then they lost brodie for nothing and didn't retain either player or hamonic for that matter. Just poor judgment and a waste of assets all around.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

I don't disagree, but it didn't work as when the season shut down the Flames weren't in a playoff spot and then they lost brodie for nothing and didn't retain either player or hamonic for that matter. Just poor judgment and a waste of assets all around.

Again, trading Brodie would have been premature. The fact they didn’t trade him also speaks to a likelihood that they wanted to resign him. When Markstrom hit the market, that probably changed things. Was it the wrong move to prioritize Markstrom over Brodie? Time will tell.

Hamonic on the other hand, rightly or wrongly, relegated himself to the scrap heap by opting out of the bubble and his play beforehand. In any event, he was hurt during at the time of the the deadline, so any return the Glsmes would have got was probably along the same lines as Forbort, assuming anyone was going to give anything for an injured 4 or 5 D.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

I don't disagree, but it didn't work as when the season shut down the Flames weren't in a playoff spot and then they lost brodie for nothing and didn't retain either player or hamonic for that matter. Just poor judgment and a waste of assets all around.

The Flames were in a playoff spot when the season shut down last year. That is why they had home ice in the play in round.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Again, trading Brodie would have been premature. The fact they didn’t trade him also speaks to a likelihood that they wanted to resign him. When Markstrom hit the market, that probably changed things. Was it the wrong move to prioritize Markstrom over Brodie? Time will tell.

Hamonic on the other hand, rightly or wrongly, relegated himself to the scrap heap by opting out of the bubble and his play beforehand. In any event, he was hurt during at the time of the the deadline, so any return the Glsmes would have got was probably along the same lines as Forbort, assuming anyone was going to give anything for an injured 4 or 5 D.

It goes back to the same thing I've said from the beginning. Nobody blamed goaltending or defense for this teams playoff failures since maybe Elliott. Arguing about Hamonic vs Brodie vs Tanev vs Markstrom is the problem. Defense and goaltending wasn't the reason this team folds like a lawn chair in the playoffs.

Having an embarrassing offensive group and focusing on defense and goaltending and paying the absolute bottom dollar to fill the forward roster is the problem.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

I don't disagree, but it didn't work as when the season shut down the Flames weren't in a playoff spot and then they lost brodie for nothing and didn't retain either player or hamonic for that matter. Just poor judgment and a waste of assets all around.

Re:Hamonic, let’s also not forget there was likely bit of a human element to this. It has been stated clearly that Hamonic wanted to be in Western Canada for family reasons. His newborn daughter had also contracted a serious respiratory virus/condition that, from the sounds of it, was very scary.

If the Flames opted not to trade him for a 4th, or whatever, maybe we can let the off the hook on this one.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

It goes back to the same thing I've said from the beginning. Nobody blamed goaltending or defense for this teams playoff failures since maybe Elliott. Arguing about Hamonic vs Brodie vs Tanev vs Markstrom is the problem. Defense and goaltending wasn't the reason this team folds like a lawn chair in the playoffs.

Having an embarrassing offensive group and focusing on defense and goaltending and paying the absolute bottom dollar to fill the forward roster is the problem.

Sure, no argument on the larger picture from me on this.

But, if the Flames had traded Brodie and Hamonic, their playoff hopes were going to be tied to a D that looked something along the lines of:

Hanifin Anderson
Kylington Stone
Davidson Yelesin

Say what you will about Forbort and Gustavson, but at least they are NHLer’s.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The Flames were in a playoff spot when the season shut down last year. That is why they had home ice in the play in round.

Less points, higher points percentage by the smallest amount possible. Let's count on them that they would have won the game that would have actually put them in that spot all things being equal. Since they thrive in must win games.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Sure, no argument on the larger picture from me on this.

But, if the Flames had traded Brodie and Hamonic, their playoff hopes were going to be tied to a D that looked something along the lines of:

Hanifin Anderson
Kylington Stone
Davidson Yelesin

Say what you will about Forbort and Gustavson, but at least they are NHLer’s.

The Flames didn't deserve to make the playoffs. They weren't a good team. What did any of Brodie, Hamonic, Forbort or.gustafsson have to do with that? They could have magically signed Brent Burns or Shea Weber for nothing and it still wouldn't have addressed what was actually wrong with the team. It's just shuffling deckchairs on the titanic.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

The Flames didn't deserve to make the playoffs. They weren't a good team. What did any of Brodie, Hamonic, Forbort or.gustafsson have to do with that? They could have magically signed Brent Burns or Shea Weber for nothing and it still wouldn't have addressed what was actually wrong with the team. It's just shuffling deckchairs on the titanic.

Doesn’t matter what you or I think. Their goal was to make the playoffs.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Doesn’t matter what you or I think. Their goal was to make the playoffs.

Yes, and it was trelivings job to make that happen, and he failed, and he made poor and counterproductive decisions trying to make it happen. Now he's being judged on those decisions.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

Yes, and it was trelivings job to make that happen, and he failed, and he made poor and counterproductive decisions trying to make it happen. Now he's being judged on those decisions.

But they did make the playoffs last year.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by TOfan

But they did make the playoffs last year.

They did, my bad, you are right. Just not the way they thought they would.

When I said poor and counterproductive decisions I meant decisions that cost the team assets and didn't address the actual problems that would improve the team. Not just last year but again this year with markstrom and tanev and no improvements to the forwards.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic
I mean, if you choose to simply ignore every one of Treliving's best UFA contracts, then yeah, it doesn't look good at all.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Something about harem paintball

Here’s a reasonably complete list:

2014
Engelland 3 x 2.9
Hiller 2 x 4.5
Raymond 3 x 3.15

2015
Ramo 1 x 3.8
Derek Grant 1 x 700K
Frolik 5 x 4.3

2016
Troy Brouwer 4 x 4.5
Chad Johnson 1 x 1.7

2017
Stone 3 x 3.33
Versteeg 1 x 1.7
Marek Hrivik 1 x 650
Jagr!

2018
Neal 5 x 5.75
Ryan 3 x 3.125
Czarnik 2 x 1.25
Prout 1 x 800
Quine 1 x 700

2019
Rinaldo 1 x 700
Rieder 1 x 700
Stone 1 x 700
Talbot 1 x 2.75

2020
Markstrom 6 x 6
Tanev 4 x 4.5
Lievo 1 x 875
Nesterov 1 x 700
Simon 1 x 700
Nordstrom 1 x 700
Domingue 1 x 700
Robinson 1 x 700
Rinaldo 1 x 700


2021
Stone 1 x 700

Say you sort them in to good / neutral / not so good
What’re the ones you can make a case for being good?

Engelland (I liked it, it was criticized by many at the time)
Frolik (worked well with Backs for several years)
Ryan (a lot of people wondered why he tripled his salary here but turned out to be a dependable player, I think a bit buried at times unfortunately, so makes cap hit questionable)
Tanev (decent contract for a solid stay at home D capable of top matchups)
Talbot (good cap hit for a reasonably solid G, just a 1 yr deal and didn’t factor in to the team’s future)

Jagr - I think he made a difference and gave them leadership. He was a plus 6 or so, Johnny elevated, and I thought if he wasn’t injured he was a net positive. Since he didn’t finish the year, can’t necessarily include him. But it was awesome

So..
Engelland, Tanev and Frolik?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

Less points, higher points percentage by the smallest amount possible. Let's count on them that they would have won the game that would have actually put them in that spot all things being equal. Since they thrive in must win games.

Lol just admit when you are wrong...they had a better points % than the Jets.

Also, they had more points than Vancouver who was falling like a stone with Markstrom injured. Points wise the Flames were 3rd in the div and likely would have ended up there. And they did end up winning the big games to make the playoffs in the end so...

[powderjunkie]

1 really good (so far):Tanev
4 okay+ to good (hard to parse; net positive but not spectacular): Frolik, Ryan, Engelland, Talbot

Rittich probably belongs on the good side of the ledger, too?

2 bad: Raymond, Stone*
2 really, really bad: Neal, Brouwer

Markstrom the big tbd; the rest are a bit of a wash. Overall it's a negative...C- to D+ IMO. Trying to fill that many holes via UFA is the bigger sin for me.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol just admit when you are wrong...they had a better points % than the Jets.

Also, they had more points than Vancouver who was falling like a stone with Markstrom injured. Points wise the Flames were 3rd in the div and likely would have ended up there. And they did end up winning the big games to make the playoffs in the end so...

They did, my bad, you are right. Just not the way they thought they would.

I did admit that I was wrong, quite clearly when I said "my bad, you are right."

Did Markstrom being injured make Vancouver "fall like a stone" or did they make it to the western finals?

Did they win big games to make it to the playoffs or did the season get suspended and then they got mostly healthy minus Hamonic and rode injuries and personnel issues to Winnipeg to a playoff birth where they got exposed again for having a core that wilts under pressure?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Here’s a reasonably complete list:

2014
Engelland 3 x 2.9
Hiller 2 x 4.5
Raymond 3 x 3.15

2015
Ramo 1 x 3.8
Derek Grant 1 x 700K
Frolik 5 x 4.3

2016
Troy Brouwer 4 x 4.5
Chad Johnson 1 x 1.7

2017
Stone 3 x 3.33
Versteeg 1 x 1.7
Marek Hrivik 1 x 650
Jagr!

2018
Neal 5 x 5.75
Ryan 3 x 3.125
Czarnik 2 x 1.25
Prout 1 x 800
Quine 1 x 700

2019
Rinaldo 1 x 700
Rieder 1 x 700
Stone 1 x 700
Talbot 1 x 2.75

2020
Markstrom 6 x 6
Tanev 4 x 4.5
Lievo 1 x 875
Nesterov 1 x 700
Simon 1 x 700
Nordstrom 1 x 700
Domingue 1 x 700
Robinson 1 x 700
Rinaldo 1 x 700


2021
Stone 1 x 700

Say you sort them in to good / neutral / not so good
What’re the ones you can make a case for being good?

Engelland (I liked it, it was criticized by many at the time)
Frolik (worked well with Backs for several years)
Ryan (a lot of people wondered why he tripled his salary here but turned out to be a dependable player, I think a bit buried at times unfortunately, so makes cap hit questionable)
Tanev (decent contract for a solid stay at home D capable of top matchups)
Talbot (good cap hit for a reasonably solid G, just a 1 yr deal and didn’t factor in to the team’s future)

Jagr - I think he made a difference and gave them leadership. He was a plus 6 or so, Johnny elevated, and I thought if he wasn’t injured he was a net positive. Since he didn’t finish the year, can’t necessarily include him. But it was awesome

So..
Engelland, Tanev and Frolik?

I think you’re being a bit disingenuous. There are several others on this list that made positive contributions. Hiller played well for his first year. Quine was a solid AHL/fill in guy. Chad Johnson played well. Ronaldo did what he was supposed to do. Rieder outplayed his one year league minimum two way contract, I would say. Talbot was good and I don’t mind Stone on a one year league min contract either. Lastly, I would bet Markstrom will also make significant contributions and prove to play well and represent good value on his deal.

We can quibble over league min contracts, but if you look around the league, I bet you will see these sorts of contracts on nearly every other team.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

Less points, higher points percentage by the smallest amount possible. Let's count on them that they would have won the game that would have actually put them in that spot all things being equal. Since they thrive in must win games.

It’s a fact Jack, they were in a playoff spot.

Points percentage is the most accurate indication of standings, you make it sound like witchcraft.


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