Escalating Tensions in Palestinian Territories

[_Q_]

Circular logic of Zionists:
1. All criticism of Israel is antisemitism.
2. Israel is democratic and perfect.
3. Hamas is violent and evil.
4. All Palestinians are Hamas and don't deserve rights.
5. I'm not being a racist, you're racist. - see #1

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by SebC

Or, to make this analogy closer to the truth, Canada is your UN, and its indigenous peoples are your Canada. Do you think it would be wise for our indigenous tribes to put their efforts into killing non-indigenous Canadians with rockets, suicide bombs, and whatever else they might come up with? How do you think that would work out for them?

Do indeginous Canadians have Canadian citizenship and are they protected under the canadian charter of rights? Do the Palestinians have Israeli citizenship and are they protected under whatever is the Israeli equivalent of the charter of rights? Is your comparison really valid?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

What is the worst job ever, Alex?

Who the #### would volunteer for that or what nation would send their troops to work that.

I'm sorry this isn't a good option.

The ####ing Swiss are going.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by peter12

The ####ing Swiss are going.

yes, them and the swedes with their lardy da neutrality, they think they're so much better than us with their ####oo clocks and pickled herring

[SebC]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Do indeginous Canadians have Canadian citizenship and are they protected under the canadian charter of rights? Do the Palestinians have Israeli citizenship and are they protected under whatever is the Israeli equivalent of the charter of rights? Is your comparison really valid?

I would say that indigenous Canadians have a significantly better situation than Palestinians, but that's not an invalidation of my argument. Rather, it's my point. Their situation is better because they are making their claims peacefully, and we trust that the freedoms they have won't result in dead Canadians. Their gains aren't made through force, but through appeals to the consciences of those with power. Now, if you want to argue that their situation is equally bad, then that would refute my point. But you're implying precisely the opposite.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Zionists however, have been pretty clear about their desire for the eradication of Arabs.

We need start making clear distinctions between Zionists and regular Jews like me.

This is a terrible post. So Jews like me in favour of a two-state solution that allows for the self-determination of Palestinians while at the same time preserves the State of Israel as the home of the Jewish people in their ancestral land (yes I am a Zionist) are somehow "irregular Jews". What garbage.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by SebC

I would say that indigenous Canadians have a significantly better situation than Palestinians, but that's not an invalidation of my argument. Rather, it's my point. Their situation is better because they are making their claims peacefully, and we trust that the freedoms they have won't result in dead Canadians. Their gains aren't made through force, but through appeals to the consciences of those with power. Now, if you want to argue that their situation is equally bad, then that would refute my point. But you're implying precisely the opposite.

Well if you want to play that game, let's say the Canadian government were to strip the first nations people of their citizenship, making them stateless. They then set up checkpoints on their territory, start building white only settlements on their land and arbitrarily throw them out of their homes to build those settlements.

What do you think the indigenous population would do in that case?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

This is a terrible post. So Jews like me in favour of a two-state solution that allows for the self-determination of Palestinians while at the same time preserves the State of Israel as the home of the Jewish people in their ancestral land (yes I am a Zionist) are somehow "irregular Jews". What garbage.

You're against all settlements? Full withdrawal?

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

You're against all settlements? Full withdrawal?

Yes, allowing for certain mutually negotiated land exchanges along the green line. And in favour of shared sovereignty over the Old City of Jerusalem, with full Palestinian control and security over Muslim holy places.

As I pointed out earlier Rabin and Peres had grand plans for a free trade zone between Israel and Palestine and an elevated freeway over the Negev Desert that would connect Gaza and the West Bank.

[Manhattanboy]

Btw I was at the Western Wall in 2018. I would love to visit the Temple Mount and tour the Dome of the Rock one day as well, but I realize this is a dream.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Yes, allowing for certain mutually negotiated land exchanges along the green line. And in favour of shared sovereignty over the Old City of Jerusalem, with full Palestinian control and security over Muslim holy places.

As I pointed out earlier Rabin and Peres had grand plans for a free trade zone between Israel and Palestine and an elevated freeway over the Negev Desert that would connect Gaza and the West Bank.

Agreed on the '67 Green Line.
But negotiated? No. Full return of East Jerusalem & all the WB Israeli occupied lands to the Palestinians.

Golan Heights back to Syria as well.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

This is a terrible post. So Jews like me in favour of a two-state solution that allows for the self-determination of Palestinians while at the same time preserves the State of Israel as the home of the Jewish people in their ancestral land (yes I am a Zionist) are somehow "irregular Jews". What garbage.

How is it even nearly as bad as saying anyone supportive of Palestinians are supporting Hamas and enabling anti-semitism?

If anyone supportive of Palestinians gets lumped in with Hamas, then anyone who supports Israel gets lumped in with the genocidal far right.

Why should anyone buy the nuance of your position when you refuse to offer the same? In tune with the article you posted, admit you want the eradication of Palestinians. Say “death to Arabs.” Say it.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

How is it even nearly as bad as saying anyone supportive of Palestinians are supporting Hamas and enabling anti-semitism?

If anyone supportive of Palestinians gets lumped in with Hamas, then anyone who supports Israel gets lumped in with the genocidal far right.

Why should anyone buy the nuance of your position when you refuse to offer the same? In tune with the article you posted, admit you want the eradication of Palestinians. Say “death to Arabs.” Say it.

That’s not what I am saying.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Circular logic of Zionists:
1. All criticism of Israel is antisemitism.
2. Israel is democratic and perfect.
3. Hamas is violent and evil.
4. All Palestinians are Hamas and don't deserve rights.
5. I'm not being a racist, you're racist. - see #1

I can do that too:

Left-wing circular logic:


1. Critics of the PA or Hamas or the Pro-Palestinian movement outside Gaza and the West Bank are racist. Inside Gaza and the West Bank they are traitors.
2. A Palestinian State can only be won through violent and armed struggle.
3. Palestinians are not responsible for any violence. They are blameless and faultless.
4. All Zionists are inherently racist.
5. There shall be no Jews inside a Palestinian State. Selling homes or Land to Jews anywhere in Historical Palestine is a Capital Crime, guilty without trial.
6. I'm not being a racist, you're racist. - see #1-5.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I can do that too:

Left-wing circular logic:


1. Critics of the PA or Hamas or the Pro-Palestinian movement outside Gaza and the West Bank are racist. Inside Gaza and the West Bank they are traitors.
2. A Palestinian State can only be won through violent and armed struggle.
3. Palestinians are not responsible for any violence. They are blameless and faultless.
4. All Zionists are inherently racist.
5. There shall be no Jews inside a Palestinian State. Selling homes or Land to Jews anywhere in Historical Palestine is a Capital Crime, guilty without trial.
6. I'm not being a racist, you're racist. - see #1-5.

Nice job, you're proving my point.

[Fl4me5]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

How is it even nearly as bad as saying anyone supportive of Palestinians are supporting Hamas and enabling anti-semitism?

If anyone supportive of Palestinians gets lumped in with Hamas, then anyone who supports Israel gets lumped in with the genocidal far right.

Why should anyone buy the nuance of your position when you refuse to offer the same? In tune with the article you posted, admit you want the eradication of Palestinians. Say “death to Arabs.” Say it.

This is some strong mental gymnastics.

Once again, there is plenty of evidence of Israelis condemning the actions of their government and calling for a peaceful path to a two state solution. Where are the Palestinians doing the same?

Are you failing to see the rampant increase in anti-Semitic attacks around the globe by Palestinian supporters? Are Jews flooding the streets in NYC calling for death to all Arabs? Take a look at the overall actions by the everyday people supporting Israel vs Palestine.

By all means, I support people who are defending the Palestinian people and their rights. But if you do not at the same time condemn the actions of Hamas, then you are in virtue supporting Hamas, and therefore antisemitism.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Nice job, you're proving my point.

You're both proving each others points.

There are no good guys in this, only victims and perpetrators on both sides.

[Bleeding Red]

I am about to pose a question. I am serious with this question as I have given it a lot of thought over the years but have not seen anyone address it.

What does the day/month/year after a peace deal look like?

Yes, getting to a deal seems impossible right now. I believe that at some point the two sides will sit down and try to work something out.

But what about beyond the White House signing ceremony?

Will there be some kind of "normalization"? Will Palestinian farmers be able/allowed/willing to sell their goods in Israeli markets? Will Jews need tourist visas to visit the Wailing Wall? Will school groups on both sides be able to visit the same place on a field trip (say a zoo or a factory) on the same day?

I am sure many on one side see a solid wall between the two sides, never to meet unless under armed international protection/guard. I am sure they will want no interaction and will do the bare minimum to maintain peace. But is this all we can expect?

Back in the day, before Oslo, I had a Jewish friend who was spending a year in Jerusalem. He had no issue or concern about hopping a taxi and going to Jericho. While there he met people at a local cafe and was invited to a home for tea. Everyone was friendly (I don't think politics was discussed, maybe religion).

I don't expect immediate healing and harmonization, but could this happen after a peace deal?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fl4me5

This is some strong mental gymnastics.

Once again, there is plenty of evidence of Israelis condemning the actions of their government and calling for a peaceful path to a two state solution. Where are the Palestinians doing the same?

Are you failing to see the rampant increase in anti-Semitic attacks around the globe by Palestinian supporters? Are Jews flooding the streets in NYC calling for death to all Arabs?

By all means, I support people who are defending the Palestinian people and their rights. But if you do not at the same time condemn the actions of Hamas, then you are in virtue supporting Hamas, and therefore antisemitism.

Mental gymnastics? I’m sorry, did you read the article?

[Jeff Lebowski]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1395456322099941379

Mandela’s grandson on visit: ‘Israel is the worst apartheid regime'
“The settlements I saw here [in the West Bank] reminded me of what we had suffered in South Africa..."

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/ma...-regime-515397