Escalating Tensions in Palestinian Territories

[Jeff Lebowski]

For those interested, here is an app that scans barcodes that allows you to 'buycott' companies that support apartheid:

https://www.buycott.com/campaign/782...boycott-israel

[fulham]

I do find it a tad ironic that that far left are feverish Palestine supporters. The UVIC LGBT++ alliance organized a Pro Palestine event on campus, its as if this club doesn't realize that Hamas and their electorate would punish their existence with death.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by fulham

I do find it a tad ironic that that far left are feverish Palestine supporters. The UVIC LGBT++ alliance organized a Pro Palestine event on campus, its as if this club doesn't realize that Hamas and their electorate would punish their existence with death.

… Palestine isn’t Hamas.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by fulham

I do find it a tad ironic that that far left are feverish Palestine supporters. The UVIC LGBT++ alliance organized a Pro Palestine event on campus, its as if this club doesn't realize that Hamas and their electorate would punish their existence with death.

I really wish people would stop equating support for Palestinians with support for Hamas.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by fulham

I do find it a tad ironic that that far left are feverish Palestine supporters. The UVIC LGBT++ alliance organized a Pro Palestine event on campus, its as if this club doesn't realize that Hamas and their electorate would punish their existence with death.

Maybe because murdering children and stealing land are huge issues.

[fulham]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

… Palestine isn’t Hamas.

But the people in Palestine do generally support the Hamas doctrine. I do understand they don't have many options but the people of Palestine would support killing that population, like most middle eastern countries.

[fulham]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Maybe because murdering children and stealing land are huge issues.

Oh I fully understand the crimes of both sides, I just know I wouldn't be advocating for a side personally that would kill me for existing.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by fulham

But the people in Palestine do generally support the Hamas doctrine. I do understand they don't have many options but the people of Palestine would support killing that population, like most middle eastern countries.

I don't know much about the policies of the parties, but this recent poll shows Hamas with only 30% support:

The poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that if elections were held today a single Fatah list would win 43 percent of the vote and Hamas would win 30%, and some 8% would vote for various other factions, with 18% of voters undecided.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-n...ming-election/

HAMAS VS FATAH

• Ideology:
  Hamas – Islamist
  Fatah – Secular
• Strategy towards Israel:
  Hamas – Armed resistance
  Fatah – Negotiations
• Objectives:
  Hamas – Does not recognise Israel, but accepts a Palestinian state on 1967 borders
  Fatah – Recognises Israel, wants to build a state on 1967 borders

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2...oups-different


This is from 2017, so maybe it's changed. Fatah seems the more moderate of the 2, and has more support.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by fulham

I do find it a tad ironic that that far left are feverish Palestine supporters. The UVIC LGBT++ alliance organized a Pro Palestine event on campus, its as if this club doesn't realize that Hamas and their electorate would punish their existence with death.

It’s the my enemy’s enemy is my friend principle taken to absurd extremes. If it were all about children being killed, you would see students unions marching over the 2,000 civilians massacred in Ethiopia over the last year.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by fulham

But the people in Palestine do generally support the Hamas doctrine. I do understand they don't have many options but the people of Palestine would support killing that population, like most middle eastern countries.

Originally Posted by fulham

Oh I fully understand the crimes of both sides, I just know I wouldn't be advocating for a side personally that would kill me for existing.

Again Hamas isn't Palestine.... further to that, Palestine isn't Saudi Arabia or Yemen. I doubt the LGBTQ issue is top of mind for any Palestinians actually. Hamas has to uphold a strong Islamic image, and like any Abrahamic religion, is opposed to homosexuality.

Had the Palestinians been free from Israeli occupation would they still outlaw homosexuality? It's tough to say. Perhaps they would have gone in a similar direction to laws in Jordan or Lebanon, which while not perfect, does not outlaw homosexuality.

Edit: looks like, similar to their neighbours, homosexuality is legal in the West Bank.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It’s the my enemy’s enemy is my friend principle taken to absurd extremes. If it were all about children being killed, you would see students unions marching over the 2,000 civilians massacred in Ethiopia over the last year.

Do Western governments currently diplomatically and financially back the Ethiopian regime responsible for the 2000 civilians massacred last year, or is this perhaps an apples to oranges comparison that you're dishonestly using in your tired, weird crusade against the progressive left?

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It’s the my enemy’s enemy is my friend principle taken to absurd extremes.

If Hamas is a gang, the Palestinian people are gang affiliates by choice or not.

The rival gang which is Israel doesn't target them but sometimes gang affiliates get hit in the crossfire. It's a gang war with gang affiliates being the innocent victims.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by pepper24

If Hamas is a gang, the Palestinian people are gang affiliates by choice or not.

The rival gang which is Israel doesn't target them but sometimes gang affiliates get hit in the crossfire. It's a gang war with gang affiliates being the innocent victims.

So you must have the same feelings towards Israelis who get killed then, right? If the Israeli government is a gang, then unfortunately Israeli citizens are gang affiliates and it's all just collateral damage.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by pepper24

If Hamas is a gang, the Palestinian people are gang affiliates by choice or not.

The rival gang which is Israel doesn't target them but sometimes gang affiliates get hit in the crossfire. It's a gang war with gang affiliates being the innocent victims.

This might be top 10 for all time worst posts in CP history. You should be incredibly embarrassed.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Again Hamas isn't Palestine.... further to that, Palestine isn't Saudi Arabia or Yemen. I doubt the LGBTQ issue is top of mind for any Palestinians actually. Hamas has to uphold a strong Islamic image, and like any Abrahamic religion, is opposed to homosexuality.

Had the Palestinians been free from Israeli occupation would they still outlaw homosexuality? It's tough to say. Perhaps they would have gone in a similar direction to laws in Jordan or Lebanon, which while not perfect, does not outlaw homosexuality.

Edit: looks like, similar to their neighbours, homosexuality is legal in the West Bank.

It's also such a weird attitude. IMO, even if they don't support LGBTQ rights, they don't deserve to have their homes destroyed and their children murdered. Maybe that's just me though.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So you must have the same feelings towards Israelis who get killed then, right? If the Israeli government is a gang, then unfortunately Israeli citizens are gang affiliates and it's all just collateral damage.

For sure, innocent people on both sides. That's unfortunate part of most wars especially when they border each other.

Israel targeted attacks. Hamas rockets not targeted is biggest difference in methods. But Hamas though not as targeted weapons aren't as strong.

Israel is a strong, well-organized gang (well funded, strong army). Hamas not as strong (more street level, less organized etc).

[blankall]

I really don't see any issue with peaceful protest in support of the Palestinians. There's no doubt that they are by far the biggest victims. I do think that college age students aren't always the most mature, and their concept of what peaceful protest can be not so peaceful. I really draw the line at support of Hamas though. There's definitely been posters in here stating they support the rocket fire, which, as I've stated, only hurts the Palestinians without accomplishing anything.

Conversely, I 100% support Israel's right to exist, but that doesn't mean I support what Netanyahu is doing. Criticism of Israel should also be put in context of having to deal with Hamas. Just like supporting the Palestinians isn't the same as supporting Hamas, you can support Israel without supporting all of their policies. Some "criticism of Israel" is really just advocating genocide in disguise.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by _Q_

This might be top 10 for all time worst posts in CP history. You should be incredibly embarrassed.

It's more complicated than that and using a LA gang analogy but let me know where I am wrong and should be embarrassed.

[TheIronMaiden]

Nm

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So you must have the same feelings towards Israelis who get killed then, right? If the Israeli government is a gang, then unfortunately Israeli citizens are gang affiliates and it's all just collateral damage.

I think your logic is slightly off because Hamas targets population. The Israeli army targets Hamas. That is one of the reasons Hamas builds its infrastructure next to schools, next to kindergartens, next to mosques, under the hospitals...
Hamas actively uses the population as a shield. The Israeli government doesn't.



In fact, if Israel completely disregarded civilian casualties then I believe they would have a much easier time fighting against the Hamas. It is quite a bit harder fighting an enemy that at any point can put on civilian clothes and be supported by the population.



Now as for the conflict itself, its simply politics on both sides. Both Hamas and Bibi need conflict so that they stay relevant.



I lived in Israel for 12 years, I still have an Israeli citizenship, and I am personally tired of both sides trying to paint this conflict in black and white, it has a lot more gray than either side would like to admit. There is a lot of racism on both sides, that's because they don't see the other side as people but as enemies. Both sides treat the opposite population as cold blooded killers that want to eradicate you and your family of the face of the earth.



Most of the Israelis and Palestinians right now had nothing to do with the 67 war, the 73 war or the 48 war of attrition. The Israeli side looks at it like a country that they developed and built with their own hands. They won't give it up, because they didn't take anything in their mind. If you compare the west bank with Gaza, then you will notice that the west bank actually steadily improved economically, Gaza did not. That has a lot to do with the leadership in place. That's why Hamas and Israel are doing finger pointing at each other, everything bad that happens is the other side's fault.



Finally, Israel can live peacefully with its neighbors. Egypt, and Jordan are proof. As you noticed Israel did not try to attack those countries, and in general has a decent relationship with them.