Sutter "We've given the kids who deserve it, a look"

[Dan403]

Sutter is just saying that to lessen the Kraken's interest in Philips.

They know he's good but can't protect him in the expansion draft.

So they don't play him because "he's not worthy."

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Dion

I struggle to understand why Phillips is not given a shot. Maybe Phillips is not a Sutter type player.

I struggle to understand why not playing Phillips in 2 games this year means he is not given a shot. It doesn't mean much of anything. Sutter isn't going to play the AHL roster.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by chedder

And it needs to. Watch these first round playoff games. We need to get bigger, tougher, faster and more skilled. If we thought Cororado dummied us last time, it would be a bloodbath this year. McKinnon and Landeskog are beasts.

It will be interesting next season to see Sutter's Flames try to slow down high quality teams like the Avalanche in hopes of winning games 3-2.

[BagoPucks]

Maybe I am out to lunch. Phillips hasnt produced like a top AHLer. He still has things to learn down there. He isnt going to be a checker so might as well let him work on his game there. I rather he come up when he is ready and over marinated so he earns his spot. I got no issues with Sutter setting this type of culture. It actually is good for development in my opinion

[Patek23]

We have enough small guys. The team needs to play more physical and with spark. I don’t see a future for Phillips with this team. People can point too the few exceptions in this league but you need to have skill AND be big to be truly effective in this league. Maybe you can put up points in regular season ( ie. Gaudreau) but come playoff team when your tattooed to the boards somewhere or got your head on a swivel it throws small players who don’t have tenacity in their game completely off.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

For those who are looking purely at Phillips' boxcar totals... he was the leading scorer on a Heat team that could hardly score.

He had barely any help, particularly after Zary left.

TheScorpion, can you explain what you mean when you say 'boxcar'? I've noticed you used it before when speaking about numbers. Is it a term used when analyzing stats?

edit - It occurs to me that you might be using it instead of 'box score'?

[Burning Beard]

Yeah for me this just feels like a bunch of people angry at the team for a poor showing this season venting at any tiny disagreement they have with what is done.

Phillips will get a chance to show what he's got in a full training camp next year if he doesn't get any games this year. He wasn't exactly blowing up the AHL.

We all know this team is soft and folds at any sign of adversity earlier this year, so I totally understand the desire to push this team right until the end. Show whoever remains after the offseason moves that the culture has changed and calling it in for games or folding like a cheap tent is no longer tolerated.

I also would like to see some of the AHL kids for these games to at least make them interesting, but if it doesn't happen I get why.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

I can't understand why so many Flames fans are so eager to see another small offensive prospect after watching how ineffective Gaudreau has been in big games

What a weird stance. Gaudreau has undoubtedly been the Flames MVP since he joined the team. He has been ineffective in the playoffs outside of his first year, yes, but that also doesn't mean there aren't other small players lighting it up in the post-season.

We should be absolutely ecstatic if any player in our prospect pool turns out as good as Gaudreau.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I cant believe he is only 165....dude is a little tank.

Yes, Debrincat is built like Marcel Dionne.

[Robbob]

watch Phillips be in the line up today.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

TheScorpion, can you explain what you mean when you say 'boxcar'? I've noticed you used it before when speaking about numbers. Is it a term used when analyzing stats?

edit - It occurs to me that you might be using it instead of 'box score'?

It's not a misspelling or anything, and I'm not sure about the etymology, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was derived from box score.

Anyway, "boxcar stats" refer simply to raw goals and assists, when used to analyze a player at a surface level.

https://grantland.com/features/advan...rest-week-nhl/

Originally Posted by Katie Baker for Grantland, 2012

The move has been defended, however, by those who have looked past Grabovski’s “boxcar statistics” — his simple goal and assist totals — and dug into some of the possession and shot-generation numbers he puts up. Through these adjusted metrics, Grabovski’s seemingly “intangible” contributions to the team become more quantifiable and clear.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

It's not a misspelling or anything, and I'm not sure about the etymology, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was derived from box score.

Anyway, "boxcar stats" refer simply to raw goals and assists, when used to analyze a player at a surface level.

https://grantland.com/features/advan...rest-week-nhl/

Grantland was so much better than the Ringer.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Yes, Debrincat is built like Marcel Dionne.

Dionne was 5’9 190+ lbs.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by timbit

Dionne was 5’9 190+ lbs.

Comparing eras is a little misleading.

Most players these days don't have an ounce of fat on them (except maybe Ovi). In the old days, guys were fat lazy slobs who smoked.

[CSharp]

Not sure when this league is gonna get it's act together if they want to market speed and skill over brute, enforcement, and tight checking. It's like the league has pretty much made the enforcer role obsolete and made the game a bit faster, yet the ice surface does not cater to small, fast offensive players. The current ice surface caters to big players for tight checking games. So, for team that are big and somewhat possess all the right qualities for playoff series matchups, they're gonna do well. Otherwise, teams like the Flames, Canucks, Oilers, and others that are smaller or have more speed aren't going anywhere. This is why I keep saying if the Flames are going to build a Cup contending team with the way the NHL and owners have it's ways to pack each arena, you need to build the franchise big up front to back. You can inject one or two small playmakers into the lineup but if you want to win at least one series and not bounce off of bodies or get injured in the opening round of the playoffs, you need as many big bodies as possible who can play tight checking games. Majority of the small players are a pipe dream for NHL fans and they're made for international ice surfaces. Unfortunately, the Flames have way too many small guys and mid-sized guys who play small. If pre-pandemic era with the rebuilt playoff teams we've seen hasn't shown why the Flames can't win a series, this pandemic season sure showed you why.

It's gonna be some painful next few years for the Flames and with Sutter as a coach, I cannot see this team swallowing its pride to try and get a franchise player to move this team in the right direction. I still can't believe Sutter is still play the full roster and still riding Markstrom to the end - for what?!?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

What a weird stance. Gaudreau has undoubtedly been the Flames MVP since he joined the team. He has been ineffective in the playoffs outside of his first year, yes, but that also doesn't mean there aren't other small players lighting it up in the post-season.

We should be absolutely ecstatic if any player in our prospect pool turns out as good as Gaudreau.

Pump the breaks. Matty Phillips is no Johnny Gaudreau. Not even remotely close. At the same age, Gaudreau was putting up 30 goals and a PPG in the NHL. Phillips hasn't even done that in the AHL. Matty Phillips hasn't been a dominant player in the AHL yet, and with the challenges he's facing makes him a real long shot. I completely understand why Sutter hasn't put him in the lineup. Maybe he get's the last game of the season, a la Johnny Gaudreau, but only if he sees that game as a throw away.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by New Era

Pump the breaks. Matty Phillips is no Johnny Gaudreau. Not even remotely close. At the same age, Gaudreau was putting up 30 goals and a PPG in the NHL. Phillips hasn't even done that in the AHL. Matty Phillips hasn't been a dominant player in the AHL yet, and with the challenges he's facing makes him a real long shot. I completely understand why Sutter hasn't put him in the lineup. Maybe he get's the last game of the season, a la Johnny Gaudreau, but only if he sees that game as a throw away.

did you even read my post

at what point did I say Phillips was Gaudreau

[ricardodw]

1) Where does Phillips fit in the Line up?

Lindholm and Tkachuk? And Let Gaudreau play on a checking line?


2) compare Phillips to the other 2016 draft pick... Dillon Dube...

Dube was on U-20 Team Canada twice and captain once.

Dube was over a ppg in his 56 AHL game with the never overpowering Heat.

the 2019-20 Heat 30-17-8 was the best all time Heat team ever. 22 year old Phillips was not a ppg. An all skill, tiny player like him has to be a solid ppg player at the AHL level to be considered for a look.

Here is where Sutter thinks where Dube is in his development:

Dube in Doghouse

Since Sutter was hired, many players have struggled to perform at the level they are capable of, perhaps none more than Dillon Dube. The 22-year-old has not made a great impression on his new bench boss. First, he played just 6:06 in a game against the Toronto Maple Leafs on March 20. Despite that benching, Sutter made it clear that he believes Dube is a great player and that he will be fine moving forward.

However, that hasn’t been the case. While he suited up for the team’s next three games, he was held to just a single assist. Clearly, that isn’t good enough for Sutter, and Dube was a healthy scratch again on Saturday night.

“They’ve got to be better players for us,” Sutter said when asked why both Dube and rookie defenceman Juuso Valimaki were healthy scratches against the Jets. “Okay is not okay in this racket.”

When Sutter was brought in, he was expected to bring accountability to the dressing room. Early on, that appears to be the case, as he has shown tough love to his players. It will be interesting to see how both players, particularly Dube, respond.

I recall that Tim Ramholt was forced into Keenan's Flames lineup and played for 45 seconds, cost the Flames a goal and his NHL was over.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

1) Where does Phillips fit in the Line up?

Lindholm and Tkachuk? And Let Gaudreau play on a checking line?


2) compare Phillips to the other 2016 draft pick... Dillon Dube...

Dube was on U-20 Team Canada twice and captain once.

Dube was over a ppg in his 56 AHL game with the never overpowering Heat.

the 2019-20 Heat 30-17-8 was the best all time Heat team ever. 22 year old Phillips was not a ppg. An all skill, tiny player like him has to be a solid ppg player at the AHL level to be considered for a look.

Here is where Sutter thinks where Dube is in his development:



I recall that Tim Ramholt was forced into Keenan's Flames lineup and played for 45 seconds, cost the Flames a goal and his NHL was over.

To this day I have no idea how a guy like Sutter, who loves his big Western Canadian boys, passed on Weber to take this guy.

Boggles the mind.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

To this day I have no idea how a guy like Sutter, who loves his big Western Canadian boys, passed on Weber to take this guy.

Boggles the mind.

It was worse than that. 6 picks after Rambolt was selected out of the Swiss-A league Bergeron was picked from Acadie-Bathurst AND was playing 71 game for the Bruins and 7 in the playoffs starting 4 months later.

At least Weber had to go back to Kelowna for 2 years and then 46 games in the AHL. Bergeron was an NHL player immediately after he was drafted.

I think the Flames as an organization have been trying to show that they are the smartest guys in the room by going for the long shots rather than picking the crowd supported obvious better guys.... Chucko over Zajac,

Rather than Zajac the Flames got Chucko and then 2 3rd round Picks Prust and Boyd.

Jankowski over anyone else that anyone thought was a 1st round pick,

Hate to think how good the guys the Flames passed on to get Zary will turn out. Already Schneider 6-2 210 RD who was there for the Flames actual pick has been selected to play for Canada at the World Championships