Brad Treliving needs to go

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I am actually perplexed when people say the Flames are in a better position in 2021 than they were in 2014.

This. At least in 2014 we had hope. The possibility that Johnny was an overlooked diamond. Then Monahan's great start and our highest draft pick ever in Bennett.

What now? A couple of first rounders that may surprise us but are projected to be (maybe) full time nhlers?

I don't know how anyone can say we're in a better position now. No idea who's going to be back next year or the year after. Our two biggest stars may be either regressing or just don't want to be here.

This falls in the construction of the team and that's on the gm.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by timbit

Because , basically, Fox was an UFA who the Flames had NO CHANCE of signing.

He told them that.

When he was even closer to UFA, he was worth a 2nd and a 3rd. So, that has to be figured into the value.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well, if you predicted Gaudreau would go on to be a 99 point player and Gio a Norris trophy D when they were 21, or so, I guess I just have to tip my hat and ask, how are you not employed by an NHL team somewhere?

Astounding.

Do you actually believe we are in better position now than 7 years ago? Can you expand on that? Amateur scouting sure, coaching?

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Depends on your lens. Problem is, IMO, in terms of role, it was supposed to be

Tanev for Hamonic (upgrade)
Andersson for Brodie (next step forward)

Andersson was not ready and got paid early

To me, paying Talbot for 3 years plus keeping Brodie would have been better than losing Brodie and adding Markstrom

Don't think so. We would have still missed the playoffs, Brodie would have been a lightning rod of critism for his turnovers and soft plays and we would be complaining about Tre's incompetence at getting a true #1, listing all of the crap goalies we've had since Kipper...

Signing Markstrom and prioritizing him over Brodie was not a mistake.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Don't think so. We would have still missed the playoffs, Brodie would have been a lightning rod of critism for his turnovers and soft plays and we would be complaining about Tre's incompetence at getting a true #1, listing all of the crap goalies we've had since Kipper...

Signing Markstrom and prioritizing him over Brodie was not a mistake.

Agree to disagree

As much as there were a bunch of people who complained about Brodie, that was a faction of the hysterical CP GT overreactors amplifying each others’ nonsense in their echo chamber.

Reality is he was the trustworthy D partner that allowed Gio to play Norris caliber D, could skate well enough to defend the top offensive players, and was a good puck moving D.

Andersson was not ready

And Markstrom struggled this year. He’s a blocking goalie and I have been unimpressed with his rebound control and post save recovery. I find him to be average. His sv% being 20 points below that of his peers around the 1000 save mark meant 20 more goals allowed and that should have meant at least a couple more wins

Talbot earns a lot less, is only in a 3 year deal, and has been outstanding

The only way the Flames still miss with Brodie and Talbot is if Brodie and Talbot are as bad as Andersson and Markstrom. Their consistent career stats and their strong years this year lean towards that being unlikely

[Jacks]

If you had to bet $100.00 which team would you bet on to win a game?
2014-15 Flames?
2021 Flames?


If Ward was still coaching I'd pick the 2015 team, with Sutter I think it's a toss up. If this team is ahead of what we had in year 1 of the rebuild it isn't ahead by much.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by TOfan

All fair and well, but Treliving has also stockpiled 3 1st’s, 5 2nds, & 5 3rds from 2020 to 2022. Haven’t done the deep dive, but I would imagine that’s in the top 1/3 of the league. (I’m including Hieneman)

Of course, this could go either way....

Brad, Not going to do the full deep dive for you...but here are some examples of bad teams stockpiling picks
Ottawa had 7 picks in first 3 round in 2020 alone, including 3 1sts. Another 4 this year.
LA had 5 picks in top 3 in 2020 and will again in 2021.
Detroit has 6 top 3 picks in 2020 and another 7 this year.

So on...Flames definitely do not have a stockpiles of picks. Bad team needs to sell, Flames think they're a good team. Stuck in Mediocrity.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jacks

If you had to bet $100.00 which team would you bet on to win a game?
2014-15 Flames?
2021 Flames?


If Ward was still coaching I'd pick the 2015 team, with Sutter I think it's a toss up. If this team is ahead of what we had in year 1 of the rebuild it isn't ahead by much.

Exactly in 7 yrs and we are no better if not in worse shape

Treliving has to go ASAP

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Brad, Not going to do the full deep dive for you...but here are some examples of bad teams stockpiling picks
Ottawa had 7 picks in first 3 round in 2020 alone, including 3 1sts. Another 4 this year.
LA had 5 picks in top 3 in 2020 and will again in 2021.
Detroit has 6 top 3 picks in 2020 and another 7 this year.

So on...Flames definitely do not have a stockpiles of picks. Bad team needs to sell, Flames think they're a good team. Stuck in Mediocrity.

Well, he thinks people are stupid or bad in math

There is no stockpiling there. They picked up a couple picks for Bennett due to necessity. There is no intentional stockpiling

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TOfan

How good is Zary going to be? What about Wolf or Poirier? You sure?

Point taken, but it’s not as though the flames are completely devoid of any valuable assets.

Suggesting they won’t have any players who are of the caliber you reference is a little undercooked in my mind. Not only that, those are three pretty arbitrary measures you’re pointing out.

Zary has top 6 potential but he is not a star less a foundation player.


Wolf and Poirrer are long shots.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Do you actually believe we are in better position now than 7 years ago? Can you expand on that? Amateur scouting sure, coaching?

I do believe the flames are in a better spot today.

First of all, this team underperformed this season, full stop. This was a consensus team to make the playoffs. Of all the hockey insiders, analysts, podcasters, broadcasters I happened to listen to had the Flames in the playoffs, aside from Kyperos. I think most of the Flames roster underperformed; Anderson, Monahan, Gaudreau, Markstrom, Valamaki, Dube, Tkachuk, Backlund.

I am expecting changes this summer, but I’m also expecting bounce back seasons from several of these players in what should be a season that is much closer to a normal one.

As far as the current state of the roster, how many players has the organization graduated over the past 7 years? Compare that to the previous 7. They’re a better run organization today, no question.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I do believe the flames are in a better spot today.

First of all, this team underperformed this season, full stop. This was a consensus team to make the playoffs. Of all the hockey insiders, analysts, podcasters, broadcasters I happened to listen to had the Flames in the playoffs, aside from Kyperos. I think most of the Flames roster underperformed; Anderson, Monahan, Gaudreau, Markstrom, Valamaki, Dube, Tkachuk, Backlund.

I am expecting changes this summer, but I’m also expecting bounce back seasons from several of these players in what should be a season that is much closer to a normal one.

As far as the current state of the roster, how many players has the organization graduated over the past 7 years? Compare that to the previous 7. They’re a better run organization today, no question.

Let say we discount this last year

Do you seriously think this team can win a playoff round? Especially without Bennett now?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Zary has top 6 potential but he is not a star less a foundation player.


Wolf and Poirrer are long shots.

Not that I disagree on Wolf and Poirier, but I think Zary is a keeper. When he was playing with the Heat he was the straw that stirred the drink IMO. His motor and smarts really made his line effective. Not surprisingly, once Zary went back to junior his line nosedived. He's the type of player the Flames need to keep. I'd prefer we dealt from the NHL roster and keep the prospect base in tact. Some of them may be long shots, but we need to maintain the little prospect depth we have.

[Hackey]

I think that miracle first half of a season a couple years ago has put in people's head that this is a good team underachieving. That year we had career years from everyone. This year I do think the team underperformed but I do believe this team is far closer to what they actually are than the team from 2 years ago. The fact that they played very inconsistent after the All Star break that year, got destroyed in the playoffs, continued to play inconsistent, folded in all the big games since, etc. We need to stop fooling ourselves that this team is anything but a bubble team at best. If that's the goal we're in a very sad place if we're gonna continue to use picks in an attempt to maybe grab the 8th seed. I can't believe people are fine with this constant mediocrity from this organization. Tear it down and build it back up properly before you're forced to do it in a few years down the road anyways.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by New Era

Not that I disagree on Wolf and Poirier, but I think Zary is a keeper. When he was playing with the Heat he was the straw that stirred the drink IMO. His motor and smarts really made his line effective. Not surprisingly, once Zary went back to junior his line nosedived. He's the type of player the Flames need to keep. I'd prefer we dealt from the NHL roster and keep the prospect base in tact. Some of them may be long shots, but we need to maintain the little prospect depth we have.

Yes, Zary can become a good top 6, that’s pretty good considering when he was drafted.

He has never been a star when he was with the other top junior prospects, he looked good on Stockton because that is a bad team with few players that have NHL potential, don’t let the local fool you. Phillips and companies have little NHL future

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I think that miracle first half of a season a couple years ago has put in people's head that this is a good team underachieving. That year we had career years from everyone. This year I do think the team underperformed but I do believe this team is far closer to what they actually are than the team from 2 years ago. The fact that they played very inconsistent after the All Star break that year, got destroyed in the playoffs, continued to play inconsistent, folded in all the big games since, etc. We need to stop fooling ourselves that this team is anything but a bubble team at best. If that's the goal we're in a very sad place if we're gonna continue to use picks in an attempt to maybe grab the 8th seed. I can't believe people are fine with this constant mediocrity from this organization. Tear it down and build it back up properly before you're forced to do it in a few years down the road anyways.

Yeah take out those 30-40 games and this has been a very bad team

Treliving adding for playoffs were like going all in poker on a bad hand

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Let say we discount this last year

Do you seriously think this team can win a playoff round? Especially without Bennett now?

Well, that’s a tough question to answer. What alternate universe are we in? The team as it was constructed at the beginning of this season, the team at this moment, or the team next season? Two out of these three scenarios don’t matter, frankly.

I think the team at the beginning of the season was one that should have made the playoffs. Why didn’t they? Don’t know, but it was likely several factors. Had things gone better, do I think they could have won a round? Yeah, that could have happened. If they were a playoff team, chances are Bennett is still here. Even if things had gone better though, I don’t think this team would have been seen as a contender, or close to it for that matter. No argument there from myself on that.

The question, I think, shouldn’t be ‘is this team going to rebuild?’, because , I’ll go out on a limb here and say, they’re not. The question is how are they going to improve? I think this organization is set on making incremental improvements, opposed to whole sale changes. I think that is the way it is and how it has always been. I think that is what ownership, Treliving, and Sutter will do, they will look to make retool, or whatever term you might want to use, and look for bounce back performances from the majority of the roster along with a trade or two to address roster construction. I know that’s not the sexy way to go about it or what a lot of people want to see, but I believe that is what the Flames will do.

[chedder]

^ almost nobody in this thread is arguing it will be a retool. That's pretty obvious with the Sutter hire. How big a shakeup and who is shipped out and brought in is the unknown.

The question and the thread is about whether Treliving should be the one to attempt it. Most, including me, say a big no to that. He has failed to make this team markedly better. Playoff performance has been a joke and our two stars will likely be playing elsewhere in 2 years or less. He hasn't built the team to contend consistently, let alone once.

How Johnny and Matthew are handled is going to dictate the future of this team and I don't want Treliving anywhere near those decisions.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Yeah take out those 30-40 games and this has been a very bad team

Treliving adding for playoffs were like going all in poker on a bad hand

At least in poker, an all in bluff can be a good play. Treliving is trying to bluff in NHL hockey, which is never a good plan.

[RedMan12]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Brad, Not going to do the full deep dive for you...but here are some examples of bad teams stockpiling picks
Ottawa had 7 picks in first 3 round in 2020 alone, including 3 1sts. Another 4 this year.
LA had 5 picks in top 3 in 2020 and will again in 2021.
Detroit has 6 top 3 picks in 2020 and another 7 this year.

So on...Flames definitely do not have a stockpiles of picks. Bad team needs to sell, Flames think they're a good team. Stuck in Mediocrity.

Forever... Forever... Forever...