Bedard/Michkov Sweepstakes

[CASe333]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

If the Flames lose the lottery, then whatever. But i will say one thing - without a player like that - the Flames will forever be mediocre. Forget McDavid. The Oilers also have Draisaitl. That management literally has the easiest job in the league filling out a roster. Those 2 alone will make them competitive. Imagine if the Oilers got an actual goaltender and Evan Bouchard blossoms like Byron Bader is saying he will. Then the real misery of the Flames fan will actually begin.

You sound like an oiler fluffer with crap like this

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by cral12

https://twitter.com/user/status/1390530373885448193

Pretty much a no brainer but I really do think our management and ownership group is incompetent. Other franchises (Heck even maybe Buffalo or Detroit) will find a way to capitalize. We even suck at losing.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by CASe333

You sound like an oiler fluffer with crap like this

Not really. I’m just pointing out the facts. Flames team has scored 132 goals this year.

McDavid alone has been in on 96 goals. The Oilers have a guy scoring on the pace of 150 points and another guy on pace for 121 points over 82 game season. Some of the older Flames fans remember the 80s. This is way different. Our roster is pathetic compared to those two players. We (as a fan base) deserve elite players after literally a miserable past 30 years. If we don’t, the next decade is going to be much worse than the 80s. And no- I’m not saying the Oilers are winning 6 cups or even 1 cup. Atleast their fans get entertained on a nightly basis. Truth hurts. it might sting but those are the facts.

[CASe333]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Not really. I’m just pointing out the facts. Flames team has scored 132 goals this year.

McDavid alone has been in on 96 goals. The Oilers have a guy scoring on the pace of 150 points and another guy on pace for 121 points over 82 game season. Some of the older Flames fans remember the 80s. This is way different. Our roster is pathetic compared to those two players. We (as a fan base) deserve elite players after literally a miserable past 30 years. If we don’t, the next decade is going to be much worse than the 80s. And no- I’m not saying the Oilers are winning 6 cups or even 1 cup. Atleast their fans get entertained on a nightly basis. Truth hurts. it might sting but those are the facts.

Thanks for proving my point McFluffster.

[CliffFletcher]

Can the anti-tankers name teams who have won Cups in the last 15 years who did not have any top-3 picks on the roster?

Tanking doesn’t guarantee success. But not tanking almost guarantees never being elite. That’s just the way the NHL is designed.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Can the anti-tankers name teams who have won Cups in the last 15 years who did not have any top-3 picks on the roster?

Tanking doesn’t guarantee success. But not tanking almost guarantees never being elite. That’s just the way the NHL is designed.

St Louis just did it unless you think Bouwmeester, a player they didn't draft, was the reason they won

In the last 40 years only 9 1st overalls have won a cup. Lemieux, Murphy (not with the team that drafted him), Modano, Lecavalier, Kane, Fleury, Crosby, Ovechkin and now Stamkos

[Jiri Hrdina]

^I have to admit that's a surprising stat.
The Blues are an exception as not only do they not have a top 3 pick (AP at #4 was important, and I'm not counting EJ at #1 as it was too long ago) but they didn't have many high picks overall

But outside of that I agree with Cliff's broader point.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Can the anti-tankers name teams who have won Cups in the last 15 years who did not have any top-3 picks on the roster?

Tanking doesn’t guarantee success. But not tanking almost guarantees never being elite. That’s just the way the NHL is designed.

The thing is over 20 years every team will have up and downs, and should have a top 3 pick.

Usually those top 3 picks make you better, you rise up and contend, and then it resets. Good players are picked in early picks. Good players equal better team success. Anyone disputing this is dilussional.

SOMEHOW (Incompetence?) the Flames are the exception to the cycle the rest of the teams experience. We have never had a top 3 pick. We never had the "rise up" cycle in the past 15 years.

The only rise up cycle we had was when we managed to trade for a goalie who put together arguably the greatest 3 years in NHL history.

You could argue in the past 30 years we have never been part of the typical NHL cycle of Good Team/Bad Team. We are MEH team.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

^I have to admit that's a surprising stat.
The Blues are an exception as not only do they not have a top 3 pick (AP at #4 was important, and I'm not counting EJ at #1 as it was too long ago) but they didn't have many high picks overall

But outside of that I agree with Cliff's broader point.

Yeah I wouldn't say I'm anti-tank anyways, just adding to the conversation

Obviously I'd love for the Flames to land a legit top talent, I just don't see how they can realistically be bad enough to out-tank other teams that are going to be blowing it up like Buffalo, Detroit, Chicago, Anaheim etc

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Wood

St Louis just did it unless you think Bouwmeester, a player they didn't draft, was the reason they won

In the last 40 years only 9 1st overalls have won a cup. Lemieux, Murphy (not with the team that drafted him), Modano, Lecavalier, Kane, Fleury, Crosby, Ovechkin and now Stamkos

But some won more then 1 cup - And let's not exclude Gretzky who would have been #1 and won four cups.

If my Math is right including Gretzky its 16/40 teams that won the cup had a #1 on them (Some had more then 1)

You also have 4 cups from Detroit who was the first team to bring over all the Europeans. I don't think you are going to see the model of team building really work again

So excluding those teams as well, is basically 50% of teams had a #1 Pick

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Wood

Yeah I wouldn't say I'm anti-tank anyways, just adding to the conversation



Obviously I'd love for the Flames to land a legit top talent, I just don't see how they can realistically be bad enough to out-tank other teams that are going to be blowing it up like Buffalo, Detroit, Chicago, Anaheim etc

I agree with this. My belief is that a team cannot manufacture a tank—they can capitalize, which is what the Flames have failed to do effectively, but I just don't think this team will he bad enough in the 2022 season to get into the conversation for Bedard.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But some won more then 1 cup - And let's not exclude Gretzky who would have been #1 and won four cups.

If my Math is right including Gretzky its 16/40 teams that won the cup had a #1 on them (Some had more then 1)

You also have 4 cups from Detroit who was the first team to bring over all the Europeans. I don't think you are going to see the model of team building really work again

So excluding those teams as well, is basically 50% of teams had a #1 Pick

Exactly.
Much of that was also in a pre cap Era where teams could spend on multiple superstar signings.

In the cap era, you need those top 3 picks to become a contender.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I agree with this. My belief is that a team cannot manufacture a tank—they can capitalize, which is what the Flames have failed to do effectively, but I just don't think this team will he bad enough in the 2022 season to get into the conversation for Bedard.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Do you mean the 2023 season? I agree though. I don’t see us sucking hard enough to land either Wright or Bedard.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Can the anti-tankers name teams who have won Cups in the last 15 years who did not have any top-3 picks on the roster?

Tanking doesn’t guarantee success. But not tanking almost guarantees never being elite. That’s just the way the NHL is designed.

It's also not just hockey. It's every sport. You need elite talent, which lives at the top of the draft outside of exceptional circumstances.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Not really. I’m just pointing out the facts. Flames team has scored 132 goals this year.

McDavid alone has been in on 96 goals. The Oilers have a guy scoring on the pace of 150 points and another guy on pace for 121 points over 82 game season. Some of the older Flames fans remember the 80s. This is way different. Our roster is pathetic compared to those two players. We (as a fan base) deserve elite players after literally a miserable past 30 years. If we don’t, the next decade is going to be much worse than the 80s. And no- I’m not saying the Oilers are winning 6 cups or even 1 cup. Atleast their fans get entertained on a nightly basis. Truth hurts. it might sting but those are the facts.

The oilers have tons of work to do still but I agree. Imagine what we would be hearing from up North if they added 2 or 3 good players to their team. If they make good decisions they could be unstoppable

Unfortunately for their fans they sign their top 2 4 years ago and after this year will be on the second half of Leon’s deal. They still have 0 proven players locked up beyond 2 years. Kassian is the only guy that is locked up for 3. Sure the have halloway Broberg and Bouchard but they won’t improve them unless they keep nuge and nurse. They might but they still haven’t locked it up yet. It could be so much worse though if they did they work over the last 4 years

This summer is a big one though. Oilers have space to resign guys and maybe add some depth. But IMO they need to stop the short term junk but that might be their only option

As good as mcdavid and Leon are Sid and geno were just as good. But they had guys like staal kessel letang fleury types along side them throughout the years

If they flames go after a rebuild they need to consider doing some prep work in the beginning. Lock up your young guys and focus on cost control. Anyone who doesn’t sign long term should go

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Do you mean the 2023 season? I agree though. I don’t see us sucking hard enough to land either Wright or Bedard.

Yes. That's right. Becoming a contending team requires a lot of fortuitous timing and luck. I don't think it is possible to decide to be in the running for Wright or Bedard. It either happens or it doesn't.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yes. That's right. Becoming a contending team requires a lot of fortuitous timing and luck. I don't think it is possible to decide to be in the running for Wright or Bedard. It either happens or it doesn't.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I think a team like the Flames could be positioned as well as any, given the aging nature and expiring contracts of our core. If we let things run their course and trade the expiring contracts for futures and draft picks, it doesn't appear that our young talent is in the top 2/3 of the league right now that would have the team winning too frequently to be a lottery team.

I'd argue the Flames could be in a group of about 5 teams with an inside track, based on the outlook of rosters at this point in time. But, management would need to commit to it, which I am skeptical of based on...the history of the franchise.

[SuperMatt18]

Flames will probably do Flames things and have an unexpectedly great season in the year where you hope they would not be good.

They did it in 03-04, which directly impacted both the Ovechkin/Malkin draft, and then also the Crosby draft because of the lockout.

Then it happened again in 14-15 in a year they were supposed to suck and be rebuilding , and instead the made the playoffs and our rivals to the north who should have been on the upswing sucked again and got McDavid.

So in all likelihood Flames will make the playoffs in 22/23.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I think a team like the Flames could be positioned as well as any, given the aging nature and expiring contracts of our core. If we let things run their course and trade the expiring contracts for futures and draft picks, it doesn't appear that our young talent is in the top 2/3 of the league right now that would have the team winning too frequently to be a lottery team.



I'd argue the Flames could be in a group of about 5 teams with an inside track, based on the outlook of rosters at this point in time. But, management would need to commit to it, which I am skeptical of based on...the history of the franchise.

I just don't see it. The core is not especially old, and even with shedding expiring contracts there are still enough quality players here to make things interesting on a regular basis. That, and with Sutter behind the bench and Markstrom on the roster I think a bottom-five finish in the next two or three years is unrealistic.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[CliffFletcher]

If the Flames traded 2-3 of its prime age assets for picks and prospects, they would be well-placed both to draft in the top 5 for at least a couple seasons, and to use that surplus of picks to build up a very strong prospect base. Not that I think it will happen.