[News] Lucic has agreed to waive his NMC for the expansion draft

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Soon to be UFA Hamilton does not have more value than Lindholm/Hanafin signed to good deals. Didn't want to quote that 1000 word essay.

Hamilton is going to get 8M+

Dude fell into the trap of ignoring contracts when looking at a team. Lindholm is on an amazing contract, Hanifin too. Hell, Gio, Gaudreau and Monahan deals were darn good. I’m betting Andersson’s looks fine in a year or two.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Fair point but those lists are always misleading a year away from deadline with an off-season in between. Some will be traded, some will be on playoff teams then you get the two or three Gio would be in competition with.

I agree there is lots of uncertainty on what Gio could return or what the flames will be next year, but at a low enough price, I roll the dice. The risk/reward is absolutely worth it, especially if there's no better way to spend the money, which I really don't think there is.

I actually left out another dozen expiring D-men who are on likely playoff teams or likely to re-sign.

I agree the list will end up shorter, but almost certainly longer than this year (a lot more F's, too).

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dude fell into the trap of ignoring contracts when looking at a team. Lindholm is on an amazing contract, Hanifin too. Hell, Gio, Gaudreau and Monahan deals were darn good. I’m betting Andersson’s looks fine in a year or two.

Yep with those great contracts no wonder the Flames are the model winning franchise.

Any team that locks down 5-6 core players on team friendly terms is bound to be successful

Unlike teams that have to pay top dollar and excessive term who will be at best bubble teams that are out classed in the playoffs when they make it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

That is why you potentially pay something small for them not to take him. If the Flames paid a 3rd people would freak out...until the day they trade him for a 1st

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Which is why something small would not be enough incentive for Seattle not to pick Gio if that is who they really wanted.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Keep in mind, Seattle wouldn't just get 'something small', they would also get the player they end up choosing.

Assume Kylington for the sake of argument. For not taking Gio they get 'something small', say, a 3rd, plus Kylington.

That should be incentive enough.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

See also “losing nothing in an expansion draft means your team is bad”. Last time, the Bruins lost Colin Miller, and didn’t have to do a deal to get there. Ditto, Avs (Pickard), Leafs (Leipsic), Sharks (Schlemko), Stars (Eakin), Rangers (Lindberg)....

Colin Miller was seen as a pretty big loss for Boston at the time, as an up-and-coming 24-year-old D. Put up 41 points for Vegas the next year.

[Dan403]

Let them take Gio.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Keep in mind, Seattle wouldn't just get 'something small', they would also get the player they end up choosing.

Assume Kylington for the sake of argument. For not taking Gio they get 'something small', say, a 3rd, plus Kylington.

That should be incentive enough.

Wait, a 3rd is small now? I have to go back to the Treliving thread to reset.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Yep with those great contracts no wonder the Flames are the model winning franchise.

Any team that locks down 5-6 core players on team friendly terms is bound to be successful

Unlike teams that have to pay top dollar and excessive term who will be at best bubble teams that are out classed in the playoffs when they make it.

So under $7M apiece for Gaudreau or Gio, or under $5M for Lindholm and Hanifin is not good? OK.

[flamingred89]

Figure this is as good as place as any to put this. While on a bike ride this evening I happened to see Lucic playing catch with his daughter in their front yard. It was a pretty a cool little moment and he's definitely not as intimating in person as I thought he would be ha. Anyways carry on with your evenings and /coolstorybro.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by flamingred89

Figure this is as good as place as any to put this. While on a bike ride this evening I happened to see Lucic playing catch with his daughter in their front yard. It was a pretty a cool little moment and he's definitely not as intimating in person as I thought he would be ha. Anyways carry on with your evenings and /coolstorybro.

Lol did you tell him that?

I would've asked some juicy off the record questions, like was Bennett a locker room cancer this season, or how does he/others feel about Eric Francis.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dude fell into the trap of ignoring contracts when looking at a team. Lindholm is on an amazing contract, Hanifin too. Hell, Gio, Gaudreau and Monahan deals were darn good. I’m betting Andersson’s looks fine in a year or two.

Contracts definitely matter, a lot. But the best players win. If you’re a cap team at the bottom of the standings your contracts aren’t as good as they should be.

Of all the guys you mention the only one unequivocally playing above his contract is Lindholm.

And some are playing way below.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Contracts definitely matter, a lot. But the best players win. If you’re a cap team at the bottom of the standings your contracts aren’t as good as they should be.

Of all the guys you mention the only one unequivocally playing above his contract is Lindholm.

And some are playing way below.

The reason the Flames are in cap trouble is James Neal. And if you look at comparables, those other guys are actually playing at their contracts, and have exceeded them in the majority of the term. You really can’t take a multi-year contract and isolate a year - that’s really unfair.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So under $7M apiece for Gaudreau or Gio, or under $5M for Lindholm and Hanifin is not good? OK.

No kidding...the issues are elsewhere on the roster

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

No kidding...the issues are elsewhere on the roster

Money wise, even Monahan, in this terrible horrible year for him, is scoring at the same pace as a lot of guys in his salary range. Guys like Scheifele or Mackinnon or Barkov are the real outliers. I feel kind of bad for Schiefele and Mackinnon that they signed just a hair too early, before the contracts exploded. Well, I feel bad for Mackinnon. Scheifele is apparently a bit of a tool.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Money wise, even Monahan, in this terrible horrible year for him, is scoring at the same pace as a lot of guys in his salary range. Guys like Scheifele or Mackinnon or Barkov are the real outliers. I feel kind of bad for Schiefele and Mackinnon that they signed just a hair too early, before the contracts exploded. Well, I feel bad for Mackinnon. Scheifele is apparently a bit of a tool.

Genuine question, how do you mean Scheifele is a tool?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Genuine question, how do you mean Scheifele is a tool?

I thought this was well known? There were some stories from a year or two back about Scheifele treating a contractor who worked for him like garbage.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I thought this was well known? There were some stories from a year or two back about Scheifele treating a contractor who worked for him like garbage.

Oh yeah! I remember now, thanks for reminding me.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I thought this was well known? There were some stories from a year or two back about Scheifele treating a contractor who worked for him like garbage.

I think it had something to do with her personal chef...but I could be wrong.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Keep in mind, Seattle wouldn't just get 'something small', they would also get the player they end up choosing.

Assume Kylington for the sake of argument. For not taking Gio they get 'something small', say, a 3rd, plus Kylington.

That should be incentive enough.

Well, Calgary almost never plays Kylington and were willing to expose him to waivers, so that tells me all I need to know about Calgary view of his value.

If Seattle thinks Gio could fetch a 1st at the trade deadline, they will almost certainly pick him. Assuming Gio plays about the same next year, I could easily see him fetching a 1st at the trade deadline on an expiring contract.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The reason the Flames are in cap trouble is James Neal. And if you look at comparables, those other guys are actually playing at their contracts, and have exceeded them in the majority of the term. You really can’t take a multi-year contract and isolate a year - that’s really unfair.

The only timeframe that matters as far as the cap situation is today and forward. I don't know what you mean by fair, that's really not the point.

You can't possibly believe Monahan is playing like a $6.3 million player right now? On pace for 17 goals, and he is not anything close to a shutdown guy. Maybe he can rebound sure. But just because you can find another underperforming player in that salary range in the league, that doesn't mean Monahan is delivering on his contract. You don't have to look too hard to find dozens of forwards outproducing him for far less money either.

You can say with certainty that Rasmus will live up to his contract. Personally I can't. I'm sure we can both agree he hasn't this year. Gio's contract may have value over the life of it, but pretty clear we are at the point where that value is in the past.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. The Flames are a cap team and they are at the bottom of the standings. Is it not a given they don't have enough guys living up to their AAV? Right now, they are likely very close to the bottom of the league for getting value for money. That is not all James Neal. You stated in another thread that Lucic rarely has bad games so do you even think that contract is so bad? I do, but I don't think Falmes are a better $5 million player away from contending either.

Of course you can predict guys will bounce back, or continue to progress. Those are predictions though. And you can defend Treliving's approach to each of his deals all day long. That's not the intent of my post. If the player's performance doesn't change from what we've seen this year, the cap issue remains.

We do have Rittich, Ryan and Bennett coming off the books. Can they be replaced by better players for less money? That would be great if they could.