Brad Treliving needs to go

[zamler]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So now when players are playing poorly through multiple coaches....its the GM's fault?

Still not the players doing?

Amazing and befuddling.

So what's the solution?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by zamler

So what's the solution?

Get new players

[nik-]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So now when players are playing poorly through multiple coaches....its the GM's fault?

Still not the players doing?

Amazing and befuddling.

I'm mad at this group of players for assembling themselves as a team and staying together when it's been clear that it hasn't been working for years.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by zamler

So what's the solution?

Different players?

I dont believe scorched earth is necessary either.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm mad at this group of players for assembling themselves as a team and staying together when it's been clear that it hasn't been working for years.

Which ones should Treliving had traded and when? Assuming you agreed with getting Hamilton and then turning him into Lindholm and Hanifin. Assuming you agreed with drafting Tkachuk. You have a core of Gio, Gaudreau, Monahan Backlund, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Hanifin. Some of whom have been here 3 years only. So which ones should have been moved, and for what return?

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Which ones should Treliving had traded and when? Assuming you agreed with getting Hamilton and then turning him into Lindholm and Hanifin. Assuming you agreed with drafting Tkachuk. You have a core of Gio, Gaudreau, Monahan Backlund, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Hanifin. Some of whom have been here 3 years only. So which ones should have been moved, and for what return?

For starters, probably players who got embarrassed by the Ducks and followed that up by getting by embarrassed by the Avalanche.. and then the Stars.

In other words, when your top players don't show up for the biggest time of the year, get rid of them before its too late.

Guys like Giordano and Gaudreau have absolutely #### the bed every playoffs.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Which ones should Treliving had traded and when? Assuming you agreed with getting Hamilton and then turning him into Lindholm and Hanifin. Assuming you agreed with drafting Tkachuk. You have a core of Gio, Gaudreau, Monahan Backlund, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Hanifin. Some of whom have been here 3 years only. So which ones should have been moved, and for what return?

After the 2019 playoffs it was pretty apparent that this core had failed. So any of them, and multiple of them.

How many examples did Treliving need to realize that this wasn't going to work? People here were seeing it and we're just fans. Did he have to wait until it was totally 100% obvious? He needed it to be that blatant? Now their trade values are essentially half.

[Red]

The top forwards on this team showed us what they were versus the Ducks, both times. It was clear that they couldn't raise their level of play when the opposition was focusing on them.
This is not a surprise that came to light last year. They never played well in the playoffs.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So now when players are playing poorly through multiple coaches....its the GM's fault?



Still not the players doing?



Amazing and befuddling.

I think Monahan is trash, he was drafted by Treliving. So who would you blame? The guy who picked the player or the player that was selected? Maybe the players are underperforming, maybe the coach sucks...but bottom line is that it's still Treliving's team. If someone is underperforming, ship em out. Don't need to keep repeating "trust the process", that's on par with Kevin Lowe saying he knows a thing or two about winning.

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[nik-]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I think Monahan is trash, he was drafted by Treliving. So who would you blame? The guy who picked the player or the player that was selected? Maybe the players are underperforming, maybe the coach sucks...but bottom line is that it's still Treliving's team. If someone is underperforming, ship em out. Don't need to keep repeating "trust the process", that's on par with Kevin Lowe saying he knows a thing or two about winning.

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Monahan isn't trash, but he's not a good center. All he is is a shot. When wrist injuries start piling up on a player who's entire game is some goals, you'd better think about moving him.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by nik-

Monahan isn't trash, but he's not a good center. All he is is a shot. When wrist injuries start piling up on a player who's entire game is some goals, you'd better think about moving him.

He doesn't play defense, he doesn't hit, he's not a leader. He's always turning the puck over. He's made a living scoring off Johnny's feeds from 3 feet in front of the net. Without Johnny or someone decent feeding him the puck, he would be a 3rd line center.

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[BrennyBaller]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I think Monahan is trash, he was drafted by Treliving. So who would you blame? The guy who picked the player or the player that was selected? Maybe the players are underperforming, maybe the coach sucks...but bottom line is that it's still Treliving's team. If someone is underperforming, ship em out. Don't need to keep repeating "trust the process", that's on par with Kevin Lowe saying he knows a thing or two about winning.

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Wrong. He was drafted by Feaster.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm mad at this group of players for assembling themselves as a team and staying together when it's been clear that it hasn't been working for years.

Still not putting the blame on the actual people not executing on the ice.

Im pretty sure just a mere 5 weeks ago i could go back and find refrain after refrain that would go something like

"Its ownerships fault for cheaping out on coaching"

"if theses guys had an elite coach, they would realize their potential"

"Ward/Peters/Gulutzan arent even AHL level coaches".

Yet, they are worse than ever with that addressed.

Again...multiple coaches....same thing...but you know, put the blame upstairs.


Sure, get rid of BT, Conroy, Pascall, whomever I fully understand that argument but it wont make a lick of difference without changing personnel on the ice.

Put it this way, which scenario do you think would produce better results?

Change the GM but bring back the same group?

or

Change a chunk of the group and come back under the existing GM?

Answer that honestly and its obvious where the biggest issues lie.

I get that some, maybe most will say, change both.

The issue there is that any new guy (outside the org anyhow) will need time to get into his position and do his own evaluation of what he has to work with, what he sees fits his vision, and then identifying others around the league he can realistically obtain via trade with the guys he decides are no longer pieces here. That would take months if they did it now. Longer if they make the change after the season.

Maybe there is someone whom they have already contacted and asked to be ready in case they make a change who has that kind of grasp on the team that would shorten those timelines?


So realistically, we are at the point of changes in the GM spot or on the actual roster, but not likely both unless its to bring someone in to blow it up and start over. That simply is not happening even if it may be the right thing to do.

Two things why player change is WAY more likely

1) BT in year 1 of his new deal

2) New coach hired a month ago on a 3 year deal

The other solution is to fire BT and let Sutter GM the team until such a time he has re-shaped the roster in his image. You game for that?

Or

Murray Edwards and fellow owners decide that they are willing to eat millions and millions of existing contracts, hire more people to replace those fired for millions and millions more, blow up the team to make them very bad coming off an entire calendar year of minimal revenues, all while planning to move to a new stadium in 3 years.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

He doesn't play defense, he doesn't hit, he's not a leader. He's always turning the puck over. He's made a living scoring off Johnny's feeds from 3 feet in front of the net. Without Johnny or someone decent feeding him the puck, he would be a 3rd line center.

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Yeah, that's why I said all he is is a shot. I hate Monahan's overall game, but it's hard to call a consistent 25g a year guy trash.

This year he's trash, I'll grant that. This is why pros should be able to identify impending problems and move assets. Treliving is in love with his project so he can't.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I think Monahan is trash, he was drafted by Treliving. So who would you blame? The guy who picked the player or the player that was selected? Maybe the players are underperforming, maybe the coach sucks...but bottom line is that it's still Treliving's team. If someone is underperforming, ship em out. Don't need to keep repeating "trust the process", that's on par with Kevin Lowe saying he knows a thing or two about winning.

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When you start out with “he was drafted by Treliving” I don’t know how you can even take part in the discussion. Hint: Monahan was drafted in 2013. Treliving was hired in April 2014.

And Treliving has never said “trust the process”. Not even once.

[zamler]

How many more years until Tre is fully responsible for this team?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Still not putting the blame on the actual people not executing on the ice.

Im pretty sure just a mere 5 weeks ago i could go back and find refrain after refrain that would go something like

"Its ownerships fault for cheaping out on coaching"

"if theses guys had an elite coach, they would realize their potential"

"Ward/Peters/Gulutzan arent even AHL level coaches".

Yet, they are worse than ever with that addressed.

Again...multiple coaches....same thing...but you know, put the blame upstairs.


Sure, get rid of BT, Conroy, Pascall, whomever I fully understand that argument but it wont make a lick of difference without changing personnel on the ice.

Put it this way, which scenario do you think would produce better results?

Change the GM but bring back the same group?

or

Change a chunk of the group and come back under the existing GM?

Answer that honestly and its obvious where the biggest issues lie.

I get that some, maybe most will say, change both.

The issue there is that any new guy (outside the org anyhow) will need time to get into his position and do his own evaluation of what he has to work with, what he sees fits his vision, and then identifying others around the league he can realistically obtain via trade with the guys he decides are no longer pieces here. That would take months if they did it now. Longer if they make the change after the season.

Maybe there is someone whom they have already contacted and asked to be ready in case they make a change who has that kind of grasp on the team that would shorten those timelines?


So realistically, we are at the point of changes in the GM spot or on the actual roster, but not likely both unless its to bring someone in to blow it up and start over. That simply is not happening even if it may be the right thing to do.

Two things why player change is WAY more likely

1) BT in year 1 of his new deal

2) New coach hired a month ago on a 3 year deal

The other solution is to fire BT and let Sutter GM the team until such a time he has re-shaped the roster in his image. You game for that?

Or

Murray Edwards and fellow owners decide that they are willing to eat millions and millions of existing contracts, hire more people to replace those fired for millions and millions more, blow up the team to make them very bad coming off an entire calendar year of minimal revenues, all while planning to move to a new stadium in 3 years.

The GM needing to go because he can't break up a failed core has the players being a problem as the foundation of the opinion. Unfortunately this GM can't identify that until it's way too late. And if he can, then he can't bring himself to trade away one of his pieces that actually could have got value until that value has totally eroded.

The players are not good enough is implicit and obvious. So why isn't the GM correcting it? And why hasn't he corrected it for the years it's been apparent?

Everyone knows the players aren't good enough transplant. That they're still here is why people are pissed at the GM.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

After the 2019 playoffs it was pretty apparent that this core had failed. So any of them, and multiple of them.

How many examples did Treliving need to realize that this wasn't going to work? People here were seeing it and we're just fans. Did he have to wait until it was totally 100% obvious? He needed it to be that blatant? Now their trade values are essentially half.

I see a lot of this now. I didn’t then. And it still doesn’t answer who he was trading these guys to and for what.

Everyone generalizes. No one can get specific. It’s pretty easy to say “the team Treliving built sucks”. But no one can really say what he should have done, and when, and how. I get that success matters and he bears the consequences. If he’s fired, I’m not fussed. I don’t think any other GM does much better, if at all.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Put it this way, which scenario do you think would produce better results?

Change the GM but bring back the same group?

I wouldn't waste your energy arguing against a scenario that exactly no one is suggesting.

It's entirely a debate about who should be the one making the necessary changes.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Feaster was adamant he wasn’t brought in to blow it up

So..... maybe you need to apply a critical lens when evaluating the statements of public figures

* It’s in your user name

You don't believe him? They were still chasing the playoffs for the next 3 years. It seems like more evidence of the owners chasing their tail...

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

So with Sam Bennett playing most of his career on the 3rd and 4th line, wouldn’t he be playing against similar competition in the AHL? He’d without a doubt be a top liner in the minors, so wouldn’t he be going up against the likes of Alan Quine and the Byron Froeses of the hockey world anyway? What’s the difference if he does it in the NHL vs the AHL? The ice is the same, the dimensions are the same.

We can agree to disagree, but I don’t think a cup of tea in the AHL is the difference between him being a top 6 forward vs whatever he is now. I think it would’ve helped out his confidence, but that would’ve went up in smoke the second he took an offensive zone penalty and got benched. I think it’s pretty simple at this point, he’s a great playoff performer, but a poor a regular season player.

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Seriously? 3rd and 4th liners are out all the time against opposition's top players...especially their d-men. There may not be much difference between the bottom few players in the NHL and the top few on the AHL but the other 14 guys on each team are night/day.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Calgary is a much tougher market but I wouldn't be against it. Would he actually come here though.

#### weather, fans breathing down your neck, most players don't want to play here...guess it depends how badly he wants to be a GM

This narrative is so silly. Winning negates all of those issues. There are only a few teams in the league who don't have to overpay for UFAs. Our presence on NTCs probably has as much to do with being a pretender as anything else.

I sometimes wonder if ARI and FLA fan(s) lament that they only get timid players who don't want any pressure?