What would you give up for Eichel?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I would think you only go all-in on Eichel if you think he would be a Flame for at least 8-9 years. Not worth draining your futures for just 5 years of Eichel.

Bringing Skinner here together with Eichel is a bad idea. If things don't work out, you're basically screwed for a decade because of his contract.

If it isn't working within 3-4 years, trading Eichel a way is a pretty good way to kick off a true rebuild...

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

If it isn't working within 3-4 years, trading Eichel a way is a pretty good way to kick off a true rebuild...

But if he isn't the star for us that we hoped he would be, his trade value would be diminished by that point.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

But if he isn't the star for us that we hoped he would be, his trade value would be diminished by that point.

Even if he’s not a franchise player, and he is, Jack Eichel is going to have the premium trade value for the duration of his contract.

Unless he’s catastrophically injured. Sometime in the future.

[genetic_phreek]

Eichel reminds me of when Colorado was struggling with Duchene and Mackinnon. I recall the Avs weren't sure which of the two they would move but was open to moving either or. At the time, Monahan was statistically the best player from that draft year and my wishful thinking back then was that we traded Monahan for Mack. The Avs ended trading Duchene and Mackinnon turned into beast mode.

I feel this is the same situation but obviously Monahan has lower value. Eichel brings that "what if" factor to his game as multiple highlights shows glimpses of how amazing he could be. I just feel that if we have the opportunity to be in the mix with Eichel, we need to push to get it done. Even if we lost two of our top 4 players (Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk) adding Eichel still gives us potential to be better than we are today. The draft is a crap shoot as well.

If I could, I would easily do:

Monahan + Tkachuk ++ for Eichel.

[albertGQ]

What about this?

Monahan
Bennett (to even out cap hit)
Valimaki (IMO he has been pretty underwhelming this season)
2021 first rounder (lottery protected)
2021 second rounder

for
Eichel
2021 third rounder (Habs)

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Eichel reminds me of when Colorado was struggling with Duchene and Mackinnon. I recall the Avs weren't sure which of the two they would move but was open to moving either or. At the time, Monahan was statistically the best player from that draft year and my wishful thinking back then was that we traded Monahan for Mack. The Avs ended trading Duchene and Mackinnon turned into beast mode.

I feel this is the same situation but obviously Monahan has lower value. Eichel brings that "what if" factor to his game as multiple highlights shows glimpses of how amazing he could be. I just feel that if we have the opportunity to be in the mix with Eichel, we need to push to get it done. Even if we lost two of our top 4 players (Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk) adding Eichel still gives us potential to be better than we are today. The draft is a crap shoot as well.

If I could, I would easily do:

Monahan + Tkachuk ++ for Eichel.

Yeah, but Colorado didn't trade MacKinnon...they traded Duchene. MacKinnon had yet to really break out until after Colorado had that absolutely miserable 47 point year. He looked great in his rookie year was by far the Av's best player when they lost a toss up game 7 to Minnesorta, had injuries the next two, and the whole team was off in his 4th year. But after they moved Duchene out, he figured things out. Eichel has always been productive, but he's also always been on a bad team.

Duchene at that time was only two years away from being a UFA too. Ottawa who traded for Duchene eventually ended up being a bad team, and really only seem okay from that trade because they didn't give Turris a contract extension only to watch him completely collapse whereas if they don't do that deal, maybe they keep Turris and regret that.

Eichel is a good player, and would be the Flames best player. The problem with getting him is that you're left with a Buffalo-esque supporting cast after you pay the price. It's already well proven that him on his own can't elevate a team from the depths of the NHL basement, and by the time the Flames get him...it would be Buffalo all over again for him. So yeah he's your foundation, but you company has over leveraged itself to the point where they can't add onto that foundation for 3 years, and at that point he's saying trade me right bleeeping now.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

That’s where I’m at. Even if Eichel doesn’t work out, we at least gave it a shot for 5 seasons with him at helm. The core right now is not the core that is going to get us a championship.

That is extremely short-sighted. You don't make a trade that is going to cost you four first round assets for a player that is going to be here for only five years. You make a trade of that level of a player that is going to be a franchise anchor for a decade or more.

You make the trade of Tkachuk, Monahan, Zary, and a 1st you have taken an immediate production hit that you have to recover from within. You're giving up 120-140 points of production for a player that produces 80-90, if he stays healthy. He's not a player that has shown the ability to make players around him better and have significant a production bump playing with him, so to replace the lost production you have to replace the lost body. You've just shipped out two of the best assets most likely to step up and fill that gap.

There's the rub of making these deals where you try and build around a player. They take time. It takes 3-5 years for a player to develop, step in, and really contribute in the NHL. Unless you are drafting really early, that is a pretty consistent cycle. So count on those gaps taking time to be filled, which eats into Eichel's contract and opportunity window. What I find really interesting is the narrative that Eichel is being brought in to play with Gaudreau. What happens when Gaudreau leaves at the end of next season? Who is left to play with?

I don’t expect him to re-sign here either. He would be the best center we’ve had in a long time.

Then you don't make the deal. Five years is not enough to do anything, especially the state of the development system.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Even if he’s not a franchise player, and he is, Jack Eichel is going to have the premium trade value for the duration of his contract.

I just don't see Eichel as a franchise player. If he were a franchise player the Sabres would not be having conversations about moving him. I think what we're seeing in Buffalo is proof that he isn't a franchise player. The Sabres have spent the money on some talent to surround Eichel and he has not gone to the next level and the team continues to flounder. Eichel has not made any of the players around him better. The team doesn't get better. Doesn't sound like a franchise player to me in any shape or form.

Any team that trades for him assumes a lot of risk. Right now Eichel's lack of performance can be blamed on the "Buffalo effect." But if he goes to the next team and still doesn't perform like the "franchise player" that some (few) are call him, his value will indeed plummet. At that point you have a $10M player who should be paid like a $6-7M player. Trade value will be non-existent. That is the risk with a player like this. He's paid like a franchise player, but he doesn't perform like one and doesn't elevate his team. There are way too many red flags with this guy. Add his contract, lack of performance, inability to make his team better, and the short window of owning his rights, I don't see any reason to gut the franchise to get him. This is a guy who has yet to play a meaningful game in professional career.

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I think it would have to be Tkachuk as the main piece going the other way. Neither Monahan or Gaudreau makes sense for Buffalo, not enough term left to justify acquiring them. They would lose both to free agency almost certainly.

Sold!!!

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by New Era

That is extremely short-sighted. You don't make a trade that is going to cost you four first round assets for a player that is going to be here for only five years. You make a trade of that level of a player that is going to be a franchise anchor for a decade or more.

You make the trade of Tkachuk, Monahan, Zary, and a 1st you have taken an immediate production hit that you have to recover from within. You're giving up 120-140 points of production for a player that produces 80-90, if he stays healthy. He's not a player that has shown the ability to make players around him better and have significant a production bump playing with him, so to replace the lost production you have to replace the lost body. You've just shipped out two of the best assets most likely to step up and fill that gap.

There's the rub of making these deals where you try and build around a player. They take time. It takes 3-5 years for a player to develop, step in, and really contribute in the NHL. Unless you are drafting really early, that is a pretty consistent cycle. So count on those gaps taking time to be filled, which eats into Eichel's contract and opportunity window. What I find really interesting is the narrative that Eichel is being brought in to play with Gaudreau. What happens when Gaudreau leaves at the end of next season? Who is left to play with?



Then you don't make the deal. Five years is not enough to do anything, especially the state of the development system.



I just don't see Eichel as a franchise player. If he were a franchise player the Sabres would not be having conversations about moving him. I think what we're seeing in Buffalo is proof that he isn't a franchise player. The Sabres have spent the money on some talent to surround Eichel and he has not gone to the next level and the team continues to flounder. Eichel has not made any of the players around him better. The team doesn't get better. Doesn't sound like a franchise player to me in any shape or form.

Any team that trades for him assumes a lot of risk. Right now Eichel's lack of performance can be blamed on the "Buffalo effect." But if he goes to the next team and still doesn't perform like the "franchise player" that some (few) are call him, his value will indeed plummet. At that point you have a $10M player who should be paid like a $6-7M player. Trade value will be non-existent. That is the risk with a player like this. He's paid like a franchise player, but he doesn't perform like one and doesn't elevate his team. There are way too many red flags with this guy. Add his contract, lack of performance, inability to make his team better, and the short window of owning his rights, I don't see any reason to gut the franchise to get him. This is a guy who has yet to play a meaningful game in professional career.

I'll never understand this take. It's not like Eichel is playing two positions. Whoever Eichel ends up playing will likely get increased point production.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I'll never understand this take. It's not like Eichel is playing two positions. Whoever Eichel ends up playing will likely get increased point production.

Why hasn't he done that in Buffalo?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I'll never understand this take. It's not like Eichel is playing two positions. Whoever Eichel ends up playing will likely get increased point production.

Except it has never happened in Buffalo, so why would it happen here?

[TheScorpion]

Didn't Jeff Skinner score 40 goals next to Eichel before getting taken off his line immediately after signing his new contract and falling off a cliff?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Didn't Jeff Skinner score 40 goals next to Eichel before getting taken off his line immediately after signing his new contract and falling off a cliff?

Skinner had a 37 goal season in Carolina, so he had history already.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Bonded is all over it!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

What about this?

Monahan
Bennett (to even out cap hit)
Valimaki (IMO he has been pretty underwhelming this season)
2021 first rounder (lottery protected)
2021 second rounder

for
Eichel
2021 third rounder (Habs)

That is just so bad. You don’t think 30 teams would blow that out of the water?

And you even ask for a third rounder back lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Roof-Daddy]

One of Tkachuk or Monahan
One of Pelletier or Zary
One other prospect (Phillips, Petterson, Ruzicka, etc)
A lottery protected 1st

[Mathgod]

Sabres with Eichel in the lineup: 2.33 G/G
Sabres without Eichel in the lineup: 1.58 G/G

Hall with Eichel in the lineup: 0.62 P/G
Hall without Eichel in the lineup: 0.33 P/G

Reinhart with Eichel in the lineup: 0.84 P/G
Reinhart without Eichel in the lineup: 0.42 P/G

So there is evidence of Eichel boosting the production of his teammates.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

That is just so bad. You don’t think 30 teams would blow that out of the water?

And you even ask for a third rounder back lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Debatable whether that gets it done or not, but no ...30 teams do not ‘blow that out of the water. Lol!’

Christ. Get a grip. Your hyperbole doesn’t make you knowledgeable or ‘edgy’.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

That is just so bad. You don’t think 30 teams would blow that out of the water?

And you even ask for a third rounder back lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

How many want Eichel? How many need him? How many absorb the cap hit? How many want to gut their own team to better the offer?

In other words, you need a team that thinks they are just missing that 1C. That’s no one in contention in the North. It’s relatively few in the US. They all have their own elite players.

[Bonded]

Yeah, some people are treating Eichel like he is McDavid or something. I don't think all 30 teams would want him, let alone be able to afford his contract and trade value.

His contract is fair and has more of a chance becoming slightly bad versus a great value.

I would take the following over Eichel without a question:

McDavid
Draisaitl
Matthews
Barkov
Scheifele
MacKinnon

After that it becomes more of a toss-up depending what you value and what contracts shake out as (Aho, Point, Barzal etc). Obviously, a good player but he hasn't shown that he can drag a team anywhere.