2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, Bennett ####ting the bed really hurt this team. He turns into the player everyone expected him to be and this team is great. Imagine a center the caliber of Draisaitl backed by Monahan and Backlund. That would be a dream. The other thing that killed the team was Treliving's mistake of going after Neal, and then turning that mistake into a bigger one with Lucic's contract. Two outcomes that crippled the team.

This is nonsense. Lucic is an upgrade over Neal.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, Bennett ####ting the bed really hurt this team. He turns into the player everyone expected him to be and this team is great. Imagine a center the caliber of Draisaitl backed by Monahan and Backlund. That would be a dream. The other thing that killed the team was Treliving's mistake of going after Neal, and then turning that mistake into a bigger one with Lucic's contract. Two outcomes that crippled the team.

Brouwer and especially Neal were colossal mistakes. That’s $10M in cap space on 2 ineffective wingers. The Lucic trade I think helped this team more then it has hurt, but still an awful contract any way you look at.

But i agree, this team has almost everything minus that big #1 center up the middle. Draisaitl in Flames silks would make the Flames Stanley Cup contenders. Instead, it’s the Oilers who got him and now they’ve turned a corner and the Flames are left directionless.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Bennett was a mistake from the start. The troubles were there right from the beginning, but we as fans didn’t see it because of shiny toy syndrome. He had some good tools, but no toolbox. He doesn’t have the game of an elite NHL centerman and his competitiveness and edge actually hurts him in the regular season. If the Flames were annual playoff contenders, maybe the Flames could’ve gotten more out of Bennett, but alas, ultimately just a pile of nice games in a bunch of short playoff stints.

So let's assume you could tell Bennett wasn't a future 1C by the end of this rookie season. What 1C's should have the Flames acquired since 2015-16? They drafted 6 in 2016, got Tkachuk and no decent Cs were available there (apparently they would have taken PLD if he was there). Since then they've been nowhere near a top C to draft. Then there's trade or UFA. So who? And at what price (in a trade). The only big name UFA C I can think of is Tavares. He was going to Toronto. The only trades for Cs I can think of are PLD (which would have cost Gaudreau or Tkachuk and maybe more) and I guess Duchene, which would have been a huge mistake. Treliving did try and address C somewhat by getting Lindholm who he probably penciled in at 1bC even then.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

This is nonsense. Lucic is an upgrade over Neal.

They're both pieces of crap and Treliving should have swallowed his pride and not compounded things by trading for a guy who can't play and eats up $5.25M of cap space. They would have been better off sending Neal to the minors for a year and then buying him out. You'll never convince me that Lucic is a benefit to this team. He's too slow in every aspect of the game. Great guy, but a resource suck at $5.25M. Imagine how much better we would be with another $3.8M in cap space?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

They're both pieces of crap and Treliving should have swallowed his pride and not compounded things by trading for a guy who can't play and eats up $5.25M of cap space. They would have been better off sending Neal to the minors for a year and then buying him out. You'll never convince me that Lucic is a benefit to this team. He's too slow in every aspect of the game. Great guy, but a resource suck at $5.25M. Imagine how much better we would be with another $3.8M in cap space?

You'd have a $3M player about as good as Lucic IMO. And no 3rd round pick. And Edmonton wouldn't be saddled with Neal, which is fun as well.

And you'd be looking at Neal's name on the books for what - 8 years? Gross.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by New Era

They're both pieces of crap and Treliving should have swallowed his pride and not compounded things by trading for a guy who can't play and eats up $5.25M of cap space. They would have been better off sending Neal to the minors for a year and then buying him out. You'll never convince me that Lucic is a benefit to this team. He's too slow in every aspect of the game. Great guy, but a resource suck at $5.25M. Imagine how much better we would be with another $3.8M in cap space?

The money was already spent. Trading for Lucic plus the pick was making lemonade out of lemons.

Buying out Neal would have saddled the team with a brutal cap liability for years to come. That truly would have been compounding the problem.

[Burning Beard]

At least Lucic with Mangiapane is making some games watchable. Both guys are working hard and trying to win. Can you imagine what Neil's effort would be like this season?

This core needs a shake up and I can't wait for it to happen. Circumstances have made it long overdue but they can't miss the opportunity this offseason

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

The money was already spent. Trading for Lucic plus the pick was making lemonade out of lemons.

Trading for Lucic was getting a liability for a liability. We got the bigger liability as indicated by the included draft pick.

Buying out Neal would have saddled the team with a brutal cap liability for years to come. That truly would have been compounding the problem.

Taking Lucic has saddled the team with a brutal cap liability for years to come with no possible relief. NONE. What's worse, we are stuck with that play killing liability on the ice. The only way we get out from underneath that mess is if Lucic retires. We are stuck with that albatross until the contract is done, two more long painful seasons after this one. I would rather deal with a $1.9M hit to cap space over the extended period than the $5.25M hit while we're trying to leverage an opportunity window. It was another mistake and a third round pick doesn't make up for the loss of the position in the lineup.

[DoubleK]

You must be watching different hockey games than I am.

Lucic has been far from bad this year.

Obviously that cap space could be deployed better in an alternate reality, but that simply isn't the case. Paying someone to not play for you in a flat cap scenario is utter lunacy.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So let's assume you could tell Bennett wasn't a future 1C by the end of this rookie season. What 1C's should have the Flames acquired since 2015-16? They drafted 6 in 2016, got Tkachuk and no decent Cs were available there (apparently they would have taken PLD if he was there). Since then they've been nowhere near a top C to draft. Then there's trade or UFA. So who? And at what price (in a trade). The only big name UFA C I can think of is Tavares. He was going to Toronto. The only trades for Cs I can think of are PLD (which would have cost Gaudreau or Tkachuk and maybe more) and I guess Duchene, which would have been a huge mistake. Treliving did try and address C somewhat by getting Lindholm who he probably penciled in at 1bC even then.

Nobody on CP has the answers to any of these questions. We’re not in the trenches, we don’t know what’s available and what isn’t available. We’re not privy to any vital details. It would be all fantasy land speculation that doesn’t go well in a place like this.

The only thing I will say is that the ultimate bungle of all, might have been the decision end the rebuild too quickly and yes that’s obviously a lot easier to say with hindsight. But it’s obvious now that the decision to trade all those assets for quick fixes probably wasn’t the best decision. It got the Flames to the middle, no higher, a bubble playoff team, sometimes out, sometimes in, 1st round fodder at most. Now the team is left with a pile of holes to fill without a ton of cap space to work with and a window that looks to be shut for the current core.

What else more can anyonw say at this point? We’re the mediocre Calgary Flames, been that way since 1990. 30+ years of mediocre rebuilds and mediocre runs.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

You must be watching different hockey games than I am.

Lucic has been far from bad this year.

Obviously that cap space could be deployed better in an alternate reality, but that simply isn't the case. Paying someone to not play for you in a flat cap scenario is utter lunacy.

Lucic has sucked for the most part. The bar is so low for some guys (Lucic and Bennett) that as long as they get their skates on the right feet and don't soil themselves they've had a great game. I have way higher expectation on a player making $5.25M!

As to paying someone not to play for you? The Flames and pretty well every other team in the league is doing it. Some are paying the same player to not play for them (Ottawa and LA are BOTH paying Phanuef not to play!). The only teams not paying players through buy out or salary retention from trades are San Jose, St. Louis, and Washington, although Washington has a player buried in the minors. It's part of the business. Christ, the Rangers are paying just under $13M in buyout this year! That's crazy, but they have the roster to do it and it sets them up better down the line.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

Lucic has sucked for the most part. The bar is so low for some guys (Lucic and Bennett) that as long as they get their skates on the right feet and don't soil themselves they've had a great game. I have way higher expectation on a player making $5.25M!

Well, sure, but that's not the math here. And every team has a high paid underperforming guy who doesn't even add what Lucic can bring. Look at Silvferberg, who people really wanted here. $5.25M and 11 points. Reilly Smith. Dadonov. Sutter. Coyle. Okposo. Hall. Kreji. Getzlaf. Domi. Foligno.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by New Era

As to paying someone not to play for you? The Flames and pretty well every other team in the league is doing it. Some are paying the same player to not play for them (Ottawa and LA are BOTH paying Phanuef not to play!). The only teams not paying players through buy out or salary retention from trades are San Jose, St. Louis, and Washington, although Washington has a player buried in the minors. It's part of the business. Christ, the Rangers are paying just under $13M in buyout this year! That's crazy, but they have the roster to do it and it sets them up better down the line.

The Flames will only have Brouwer's contract on the books for next season. When that buyout was made, it was conceivable that the cap would continue to go up each season which limits the pain.

[tkflames]

I spent 6 months thinking that the Dubois for Laine trade made too much sense not to happen...and so sitting back I think the following 3 flames related trades are in the same boat...either now or in the summer:

1. Rackell for Bennett+ Pieces (Anaheim has been linked to Bennett forever, we have been missing a right wing power forward forever and have also been linked to Rackell).


2. Gaudreau for Konecny (don't know who adds). I don't want to think about what our zone entries look like without Gaudreau.

3. Kopitar for Monahan +. This one is a longer shot, but it makes a lot of sense for both teams in my mind. LA is doing a proper reload with lots of good young pieces. Monahan fits this age group much better and will be a late 20s leader when LA is ready for a serious run. Calgary brought in Darryl to take a run in the next 3 years after rushing this rebuild. The Kopitar contract is scary on the back end...but Calgary will be in the cellar by then and will need a full rebuild regardless. This gives them the best chance at actually taking a Hail Mary shot at the Cup.

[Ashes]

Originally Posted by New Era

For total points scored from 2018-2021 Monahan ranks 24th.

5-on-5 scoring from 2018-2021.

The "Superstars"

1. McDavid - 172 points
2. Draisaitl - 168 points
3. MacKinnon - 144 points
5. Matthews - 134 points
10. Crosby - 120 points

The "CP Favorites" or players that have been mentioned as replacements for Monahan.

6. Barkov - 129 points
12. O'Reilly - 118 points
14. Eichel - 115 points
15. Malkin - 113 points
16. Barzal - 112 points
21. Zibanejad - 105 points
26. Petersson - 101 points
27. Lindholm - 100 points
28. Kuznetsov - 99 points
29. Schenn - 97 points
33. Horvat - 94 points
35. - Bergeron - 94 points
36. Krejci - 94 points
37. Duchene - 92 points

Sean "terrible at 5-on-5" Monahan?

24th with 103 points.

Hopefully this puts an end to this stupid narrative he doesn't score 5-on-5. If anything, Monahan doesn't score enough on the PP to keep up with some of those peers he gets compared to. Take "Simple Jack" Eichel. 14th in 5-on-5, but 7th in PP scoring! "Boring Sean Monahan" is Mr. Consistency in scoring, staying at 24th in almost every measure. There in lies the problem with Monahan. He's not flashy and he's consistent in his output, so the fans here who so badly want someone to complete with McDavid take out their angst and frustration on the guy who just gets the job done.

I'm not disagreeing he's put up points.. but that doesn't take away from the fact that if you watch him play (instead of comparing his point totals), he's constantly dominated in matchups at 5v5. Hopefully this puts an end to this stupid narrative that he's anywhere near as impactful as those players you just listed (above or below).

You can show all the stats you want to prove that Monahan "just gets the job done", but look at every other player on that list and tell me which player you would choose Monahan over, Stats are one thing, but points aside yes the guy gets dominated in head-to-heads. ESPECIALLY against those players you just mentioned.

I genuinely didn't think this was a hot take.. but I'll stand by it and hope Monahan proves me wrong.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

You must be watching different hockey games than I am.

Lucic has been far from bad this year.

Obviously that cap space could be deployed better in an alternate reality, but that simply isn't the case. Paying someone to not play for you in a flat cap scenario is utter lunacy.

This is the same guy who says Monahan is getting the "job done"

[fatso]

Originally Posted by New Era

For total points scored from 2018-2021 Monahan ranks 24th.

5-on-5 scoring from 2018-2021.

...

Take "Simple Jack" Eichel. 14th in 5-on-5, but 7th in PP scoring! "Boring Sean Monahan" is Mr. Consistency in scoring, staying at 24th in almost every measure. There in lies the problem with Monahan. He's not flashy and he's consistent in his output, so the fans here who so badly want someone to complete with McDavid take out their angst and frustration on the guy who just gets the job done.

I truly don't get why New Era is so vitriolic about individual players, but I've got to admit "Simple Jack" Eichel made me legit lol. And I feel awful for it.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by New Era

Lucic has sucked for the most part. The bar is so low for some guys (Lucic and Bennett) that as long as they get their skates on the right feet and don't soil themselves they've had a great game. I have way higher expectation on a player making $5.25M!

Lucic is overpaid, of course, but to say he's "sucked" is so far from the truth.

Lucic at 5v5 among Flames forwards:
Individual:
Goals: 5 (tied for 4th)
Goals/60: 0.79 (tied for 4th)
Points: 12 (6th)
Points/60: 1.89 (4th)

On ice:
Rel CF%: 0.41 (7th)
Rel FF%: 0.19 (6th)
Rel xGF%: 1.02 (6th)
Rel SCF%: 2.11 (6th)

His defensive play isn't as stellar as it was last season but is still decent, and his offensive play has improved quite dramatically.

He'll obviously never be anywhere close to his $5.25M cap hit, but he's still a quality NHL player and does more good on the ice than he does bad (and yes, I know he's had some brutal turnovers in the D-zone this season that has immediately led to goals against).

[Gaskal]

Let's put the C on Looch instead so New Era can lose his mind.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by New Era

The other thing that killed the team was Treliving's mistake of going after Neal, and then turning that mistake into a bigger one with Lucic's contract. Two outcomes that crippled the team.

It’s like you have no idea what you are talking about.

It’s one outcome, and has gotten better over time.

The player has gotten better, the cap hit has gotten smaller and the actual cash outlay has been lessened.


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