[PGT] Flames beat Montreal, 2-1!

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Flames should claim him if he goes on waivers again this season. Sutter was gushing about him; I'm sure he'd love to get him here

Hate him all you want Flames nation...but man would he check some boxes on this roster.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Ooh. Swing and a miss.

You’ll have to forgive me. I like the phrase, but I don’t watch baseball. Not even a little bit.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by transplant99

If people are complaining about JG dumping it in....they ned to give their freakin heads a shake.

Half the problem has been that the opposition KNOWS he will try and dangle by them and when he inevitably does....they are all over it. The guy will skate straight into someone to try and gain the zone. Its stupid and infuriating.

Yes Johnny....skate like the wind until almost there, chip it off the boards when they are standing nearly still to take it away...and go get the damn thing.

He needs to do it WAY more so they cant just hone in on one thing. He, and linemates, will be much better for it.

There’s a bigger problem that you missed. There’s an over reliance on Johnny Gaudreau to carry the puck and make plays. There’s a reason why centers are generally the top point producers in the league or why Stanley Cups go to teams with elite #1 centers. This has been the fatal flaw of this franchise for decades. You cannot build your team around just wingers, if Gaudreau or Tkachuk are expected to be this team‘s primary playmakers and play drivers, then we’ve already lost before we started. Wingers are generally too easy and predictable to defend, this team needs an elite #1 center if it wants to go anywhere.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Hate him all you want Flames nation...but man would he check some boxes on this roster.

He is everything i want Tkachuk to be

Put him on RW with Monahan and Gaudreau instead of Ritchie

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

There’s a bigger problem that you missed. There’s an over reliance on Johnny Gaudreau to carry the puck and make plays. There’s a reason why centers are generally the top point producers in the league or why Stanley Cups go to teams with elite #1 centers. This has been the fatal flaw of this franchise for decades. You cannot build your team around just wingers, if Gaudreau or Tkachuk are expected to be this team‘s primary playmakers and play drivers, then we’ve already lost before we started. Wingers are generally too easy and predictable to defend, this team needs an elite #1 center if it wants to go anywhere.

This, combined with both guys being American flight risks, is why I hope at least one of them can be dealt for a solid return.

Both guys, if extended are looking at a minimum of $8 million AAV in the same off season. And that is a light estimate.

IMO you can't do that and expect to build a winner.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

One of the biggest adjustments I hoped Darryl Sutter would make and he did. I was hoping to a see less aggressive forecheck and we saw it yesterday. I don’t think I saw one instance of inefficient forechecking, no chasing. There was the occasional flush out, but you could see F1 and F2 dropping back further which added another layer of defense to the neutral zone resulting in a less overtaxed forwards and defensemen. The D were able to stand up at the blueline more as they had more support and opposition wasn’t coming at them full steam ahead. So all in all it resulted in more difficult entries, less zone time, less odd man rushes and ultimately less shots on goal (18).

So hats off to Darryl Sutter for recognizing that this needed to be changed as it was just too difficult of a style to maintain for this personnel. They’re not the fastest group, so overtaxing them leads to exhaustion and the first thing that shuts down when your tired is your brain, so you end up making more mistakes from lack of attention to detail. That’s the most important change I noticed yesterday. It makes for a more boring brand of hockey, but like I’ve said in the past, I’ll take boring wins over infuriating losses any day.

Good to see that the 4th line is finally contributing at a consistent level, that’ll help. Not sure how much longer this team can rely on this though as the other 3 lines are still having trouble finding chemistry. If Darryl can finally figure out a better fit for all 3 lines, then that’s probably the last major adjustment that’s left to figure out. Then this team should really get on a roll.

What?? What game did you watch yesterday? Not the Flames game, that's for sure.


Part of why this team was so effective last night was their VERY aggressive forecheck taking the time and space away from Montreal every time the puck was dumped in. That's HOW they were able to turn over so many pucks in the offensive zone.


Some people see what they want to see I guess. Tell me, did you see a fast team or did you see a slow team yesterday? Before the game, you were adamant that the Flames played slow because they are a slow team. Do you still hold this opinion?

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

What?? What game did you watch yesterday? Not the Flames game, that's for sure.


Part of why this team was so effective last night was their VERY aggressive forecheck taking the time and space away from Montreal every time the puck was dumped in. That's HOW they were able to turn over so many pucks in the offensive zone.


Some people see what they want to see I guess. Tell me, did you see a fast team or did you see a slow team yesterday? Before the game, you were adamant that the Flames played slow because they are a slow team. Do you still hold this opinion?

Yeah, not quite sure what he's getting at there. The big issue with the Flames were the lack of a effective forecheck. This game was the most aggressive the Flames have looked in years, and it led to them dominating in puck possession since they weren't pussyfooting at all. Hockey is meant to be a fast sport, and played fast. Flames playing with tempo is going to be benefit them tremendously more than playing passive and tentative as they were under Ward.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I’m all for moving Gaudreau with Lindholm. Their style of play is more of a fir then say Tkachuk and Lindholm. Tkachuk should be playing with Backlund. Those two just work, they both read off each other well, have excellent timing together, both strong on the cycle.

Not once have I seen Tkachuk’s blind pass from behind the net connect with Lindholm whereas it seemed to always work with Backlund. They’re a perfect match.

I'd really love to see a shake up along the lines of what you are saying as well as Phillips brought up as I think he could be a good fit.

Something like:
Gaudreau - Lindholm - Dube
Tkachuk - Monahan - Phillips
Lucic - Backlund - Mangiapane
Bennett - Ryan - Leivo

Every line has got some size, grit, speed and defensive awareness. I think Dube's speed and tenacity will help get johnny the puck more as well as open up space for Lindholm to find the soft spots.

I think Monahan and Tkachuk will work well together as they both like to play near the front of the net And phillips will be a guy who can carry the puck and open up the ice with his speed.

And then the bottom two lines as they are because I think they are working really well right now.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

He is everything i want Tkachuk to be

Put him on RW with Monahan and Gaudreau instead of Ritchie

You want Tkachuk to be even slower?

[Macman]

The biggest takeaway for me this first game under Darryl was the breakout and puck movement through the neutral zone, almost unbelievable that there could be such a big difference between coaches.

There was a couple times under Ward in a few games where the D almost put the puck into their own net, that's just bad hockey and makes the good players look really bad.

I thought Mikael Backlund had a good game and he lead all players in ice time as well.
Good fight by Milan Lucic as well.

Was a good fun game to watch for sure.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Flames should claim him if he goes on waivers again this season. Sutter was gushing about him; I'm sure he'd love to get him here

I think Darryl no doubt appreciates his game but I tend to think this was also a subtle hint to Tkachuk - could be wrong.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Waiting, are we criticizing Gaudreau's decision to rim it back deep around the wall there? That was the smart, safe play while protecting a lead rather than forcing a low percentage pass that would inevitably get intercepted and result in a high danger chance the other way.

Hrudey even called it out as the kind of play Sutter would like to see

There are times to rim it, no doubt. I like Darryl's style of play. I like getting it deep and getting shots especially early in games. I don't think you need to do it ALL THE TIME. The same applies to critics of Gaudreau carrying it in all the time - it becomes predictable.

Basically you want to see all the lines be able to do what the Ryan line did. Look at their first goal:

Bennett carries the puck in and puts a pass into the middle, then Ryan dishes to Leivo. Do people have an issue with Sam carrying it in there?

Why can't Gaudreau carry it in, when the opportunity arises to score goals like this? But I do agree that in the past it was give Gaudreau the puck and ask him to do everything. I like that Darryl has added a wrinkle - it opens things up (rush chances and forecheck).

Also the second Leivo goal is instructive too. Forecheck > pressure > goal. Doing both is great!

Why should you take away that first Leivo type of goal? Makes no sense.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

This is another case of a star player in Canada like Johnny Gaudreau who can just never win. People rake him over the coals for his constant turnovers, so when he finally just makes the safe play to dump it in, he still gets criticized over it.

Fans will need to either accept the turnovers he makes if he does the carry the puck more or accept that he’ll be creating much fewer plays because he’s playing more conservative and dumping it in. We as fans cannot have it both ways, nobody bats a .1000. Personally, I’ve generally always been fine with his turnovers because of he has the rare ability to make and create plays out of nothing even if it costs his team once in a while.

I don’t mean to just single you out Kickazzflames as a lot of Canadian fans seem to do this. That’s why Canada is on so many No Trade Lists, because we’re too hard on star players.

Not just star players, all players.

There's a reason Canadian teams don't win their share of championships, and it's not players, coaches, managers or owners...

On average, about two Stanley Cups should go to Canada per decade. There hasn't been one in what, 27 years? It's almost a decade since a Canadian team even made the finals. The pressure is clearly just too much.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Itse

Not just star players, all players.

There's a reason Canadian teams don't win their share of championships, and it's not players, coaches, managers or owners...

On average, about two Stanley Cups should go to Canada per decade. There hasn't been one in what, 27 years? It's almost a decade since a Canadian team even made the finals. The pressure is clearly just too much.

Pressure, UFA preferences, plain bad luck and inept management. And sometimes numbers are funny that way. The 5 NY/NJ/Philly teams should have produced a winner since 2003 as well. And with a few bounces, you could have been talking 4 Canadian cups in 7 years between 2004-11.

It’s hard to say it’s pressure.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Pressure, UFA preferences, plain bad luck and inept management. And sometimes numbers are funny that way. The 5 NY/NJ/Philly teams should have produced a winner since 2003 as well. And with a few bounces, you could have been talking 4 Canadian cups in 7 years between 2004-11.

It’s hard to say it’s pressure.

Well, you're not wrong, but I'm still gonna think the amount of criticism this place puts on Flames players is excessive when looked as a whole, and probably harmful to team morale when combined with the rest of social and traditional media.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

What?? What game did you watch yesterday? Not the Flames game, that's for sure.


Part of why this team was so effective last night was their VERY aggressive forecheck taking the time and space away from Montreal every time the puck was dumped in. That's HOW they were able to turn over so many pucks in the offensive zone.


Some people see what they want to see I guess. Tell me, did you see a fast team or did you see a slow team yesterday? Before the game, you were adamant that the Flames played slow because they are a slow team. Do you still hold this opinion?

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

What?? What game did you watch yesterday? Not the Flames game, that's for sure.


Part of why this team was so effective last night was their VERY aggressive forecheck taking the time and space away from Montreal every time the puck was dumped in. That's HOW they were able to turn over so many pucks in the offensive zone.


Some people see what they want to see I guess. Tell me, did you see a fast team or did you see a slow team yesterday? Before the game, you were adamant that the Flames played slow because they are a slow team. Do you still hold this opinion?

The sheer irony of your statement.

First of all, I will say that their forecheck was more effective, but it was NOT aggressive compared to their previous forecheck. This is what I meant when I said in the past that you can still force turnovers in other ways. If you didn’t notice, they didn’t chase nearly as much, you could see F2 and F3 often drop back and looked to cut off the puck carrier rather then press forward towards the puck carrier. If you want proof, just look at how many Flames bodies were in the neutral zone at any given time. Look at back pressure, look at how much easier it was for them to track back because they didn’t have to cover as much distance. Look at how few odd man rushes they gave up, did you notice how often the defensemen were able to hold down their own blue line because they had the support to do so and didn’t have the opposition flying through the middle of the ice. The structure was more conservative and lead to less much less shots and chances for the opposition.

Lastly, I never said the Flames play slow because they are slow. I’ve already said it several times that the Flames generally have to play slower based on how the opposition plays them. You’ve got it wrong with the previous coaching staff. Geoff Ward and Bill Peters didn’t want to play slow; quite the contrary, they both wanted to play with pace and as he said in the past, to “check for your chances.” They both believed in a very aggressive forecheck and he wanted to play with speed. But it’s very similar to how the Flames slowed down Montréal. Did a small, speedy team like the Canadiens team want to play slow or were they forced to play slow? No, they were forced to though.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Itse

Well, you're not wrong, but I'm still gonna think the amount of criticism this place puts on Flames players is excessive when looked as a whole, and probably harmful to team morale when combined with the rest of social and traditional media.

100%, Brian Burke has also mentioned this in the past when he was still with Sportsnet. Canadians are tough on their star players. Expectations on stars are very high and the fish bowl effect here is excessive compared to the States. So you end up having angry fans calling for heads and trading away players and that leads to less patience which in my opinion is biggest reason why no Canadian team has won the Cup in a quarter century. The math would suggest that a Canadian team should win a Stanley Cup on average every four years, but that clearly hasn’t been the case.

[Tsawwassen]

Post game links
https://scores.nbcsports.com/nhl/rec...=10&final=true
http://sportsstats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl...cap134003.html