2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That doesn't answer my question. Do you have an issues with the most recent first round picks that have been selected under his tenure since 2015?

And more to the point, it is often said that in lots of organizations the General Manager has a higher level of input in the first round selections than in later rounds; I would suggest that the difference between first round picks made before 2014 and those after has more to do with the GM than the scouting staff.

So Tre has made good picks in the first round since 2015 in your opinion then?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

So Tre has made good picks in the first round since 2015 in your opinion then?

I know you are not asking me but Tkachuk, Valimaki, Pelletier, Zary all look like very good picks considering when they were taken in round 1.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I know you are not asking me but Tkachuk, Valimaki, Pelletier, Zary all look like very good picks considering when they were taken in round 1.

I agree, but there's a few that looked good at the time of draft that didn't pan out.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

So Tre has made good picks in the first round since 2015 in your opinion then?

I think his first round picks have been just fine. Valimaki looks like a solid, emerging top-four defenseman. Jakob Pelletier impressed at the 2021 WJC, and Connor Zary is on a point/GP pace playing as a 19-year-old in his rookie pro season in the AHL. All three of these guys were drafted outside of the top-fifteen. What were you expecting?

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think his first round picks have been just fine. Valimaki looks like a solid, emerging top-four defenseman. Jakob Pelletier impressed at the 2021 WJC, and Connor Zary is on a point/GP pace playing as a 19-year-old in his rookie pro season in the AHL. All three of these guys were drafted outside of the top-fifteen. What were you expecting?

I wasn't just talking about since 2015, its the whole body of work for me. We will have to see how Pelletier and Zary work out.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Bennett+ for Domi or Danault would be my first attempt. Try getting an upgrade first.

Firstly, I am guessing that this is not the first attempt to trade him.

Secondly, the + that would need to be added to Bennett would need to equal pretty much the value of Domi or Denault.


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[The Cobra]

Monny has turned out to be an excellent pick.

The problem is that he seems to be regressing at a time when he should be in his prime.


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[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

How many swing and misses does a guy get?

Since the Feaster days (and more specifically since Treliving took over), many draft models have the Flames rated as the #1 team in terms of getting great value based on where they draft.

Button and the rest of the staff have been terrific. If anything, Treliving should stop trading away valuable mid-round picks for garbage depth.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Monny has turned out to be an excellent pick.

The problem is that he seems to be regressing at a time when he should be in his prime.


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He's not regressing. He's an amazing trigger man, but he's never been a guy to carry a line himself (which is why I hate him as a center). Trigger men are streaky, so it is what it is.

[CanucksWorstNightmare]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Surely we can get more than that... right?

I think a draft pick could be added to Brendan Guhle in order to make it work. The fact that the Ducks have had interest in Bennett and Guhle was put on waivers today could make for a interesting deal .

[David Struch]

^ No kidding.

The value of Sam Bennett on a $2.55 million contract that needs to be qualified after this season is probably only worth a 3rd round pick.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

I wasn't just talking about since 2015, its the whole body of work for me. We will have to see how Pelletier and Zary work out.

Treliving's whole body of work? He has had five first round picks numbering 4, 6, 16, 24 and 26. I don't see any clear upgrades on the players he selected where he selected them.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CanucksWorstNightmare

I think a draft pick could be added to Brendan Guhle in order to make it work. The fact that the Ducks have had interest in Bennett and Guhle was put on waivers today could make for a interesting deal .

I hate 2 for 1s. I don't want a lesser player plus a lesser pick. I would rather have one player of fair value, or one pick of fair value.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Treliving's whole body of work? He has had five first round picks numbering 4, 6, 16, 24 and 26. I don't see any clear upgrades on the players he selected where he selected them.

We are talking about Button aren't we?

[ComixZone]

Insider Trading has Frank Seravelli saying Treliving is hunting for a RW.

...yay, that will fix nothing.

[djsFlames]

I think Pelletier has the makings of a good NHLer based on his playing style.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Insider Trading has Frank Seravelli saying Treliving is hunting for a RW.

...if he trades futures for a RW’er...

I agree, but it would be fine if the RW was 26 or younger, had term left on his contract, or would become an RFA upon contract expiration.

Of course, players like that would cost more.

And this year's 1st round pick might be too risky to be traded without any sort of conditional protection.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

We are talking about Button aren't we?

Right, but given the fairly dramatic change from the Sutter era to today I think a more nuanced view of the draft and the scouting staff is warranted. If we are just focused on the first round under Button's tenure, then the picture looks like this:

Tod Button has been a director of scouting for the Flames under five General Managers: Craig Button (2001–2003), Darryl Sutter (2003–2010), Jay Feaster (2010–2013), Brian Burke (2013–2014) and Brad Treliving (2014–present). Here is the complete list of NHL players the Flames have drafted in the first round under each of these men's leadership while Button has been heading the scouting department:

Button: 3 for 3
Sutter: 1 for 6
Feaster: 2 for 2
Burke: 1 for 3
Treliving: 3 for 5 (but with two still playing Juniour hockey)

There appears to be one outlier there in the whole time that Button has been the Director of Scouting. It sure looks to me like your chief complaint has less to do with him, and a lot more to do with former Flames GMs.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Insider Trading has Frank Seravelli saying Treliving is hunting for a RW.

...yay, that will fix nothing.

Doing something is better than doing nothing.

Nothing with this team will get fixed overnight.

Even with coaching you have to get the right fit and then there's an adjustment period.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I agree, but it would be fine if the RW was 26 or younger, had term left on his contract, or would become an RFA upon contract expiration.

Of course, players like that would cost more.

And this year's 1st round pick might be too risky to be traded without any sort of conditional protection.

This team should not be trading futures unless it’s for a top end centre. Full stop. Monahan/Backlund, or Lindholm/Monahan/Backlund - it doesn’t matter, that centre depth is nowhere near good enough.

Any and all asset spends should be directed at improving the #1 centre position.