Brad Treliving needs to go

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Jonathan Drouin? Gross
He is not what this team needs in any way, shape or form.
I don't like the Hamonic deal but I understood why it was made.

This was my initial point. Anyone who says there is no strategy or rationale for his moves is mistaken. He’s blown some evaluations, and, for Hamonic, he overpaid.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I gave two examples curious would you have done Brouwer and two firsts or a first and a two seconds for Schenn instead of the Hamonic deal? Would have been about 3.3 million a year for the next three years in cap savings that could have been used for a dman and would have been similar value in terms of the draft picks.

Sure. But easy to manage the team in 20/20 hindsight.

I assess if it made sense at the time. At the time I didn't like the inclusion of the first but understood the rationale.

I get it though. You want BT gone and I don't. So we are probably going to consistently disagree on every position for and against.

[TheSquatch]

If I thought some new guy was going to miraculously make all correct decisions and just manage the team with no regard to ownership mandates and basically listen to CP and do everything right, I guess I'd say "do it". But that's not reality.

The team isn't great, and I think BT has tried and failed on a few important trades, and I think lots of players aren't that interested in coming here.

This team looks vastly different with Zucker and/or Kadri.

To me, the two biggest failings that are currently hurting the team were just mentioned previously: James Neal and Sam Bennett.

If Bennett pans out as a #1 center this team looks super different. Even if he's only a really good winger. But he's just... not.

And the big hole on Right Wing was supposed to be James Neal, and that just super didn't work. I thought it was a good signing, it wasn't. Is it Brad's fault? Did he not do enough homework on the player? I just don't know. But it didn't work.

So the team is really really hampered by a big ugly contract (most teams are) and it's hampered by a whole whack, player after player, of mediocrity. Our best guys aren't as good as other teams' best guys, mostly, and the rest of the team is spare-part quality.

You could get by on the spare-parts if the top end guys were muscling along. But they aren't. The slotting is a mess, and the talent not star quality, really.

I think it can be fixed, but it's going to take some serious changes, not a new depth winger.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m not making it up. I’m extrapolating from you saying any trade is doable if you just decide to pay whatever you have to.

So you want PLD, Winnipeg has offered Laine and Roslovic, which is acceptable. So you have to beat that, and frankly, Tkachuk alone might not do it - PLD and Laine were both drafted ahead, PLD is a C, Laine has outscored Tkachuk, plus there’s Roslovic. So you offer Tkachuk plus Mangiapane. Columbus says no, we need a C. OK so now it’s Tkachuk plus Monahan or Lindholm or Backlund because you really want PLD and in order to make the trade, you pay any price.

Gutted. Your first or second best winger plus a key centre. When you don’t have Scheifele already on your team.

Any trade does not mean every trade. Some you go for, some you don't. Kane was a player that fit the bill, but I don't like his baggage. I am glad Tre didnt trade for him.
In your trade example you make assumptions once again. What if they take Valimaki +? The forwards are not gutted anymore, are they?

But again, we dont know what the ask was. So we can speculate all we want. Point is, Treliving seems to whiff on these trades all the time. If what you say is true, we have nothing of interest, then off with his head anyways. This team should have more assets of interest.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Any trade does not mean every trade. Some you go for, some you don't. Kane was a player that fit the bill, but I don't like his baggage. I am glad Tre didnt trade for him.
In your trade example you make assumptions once again. What if they take Valimaki +? The forwards are not gutted anymore, are they?

But again, we dont know what the ask was. So we can speculate all we want. Point is, Treliving seems to whiff on these trades all the time. If what you say it's true, we have nothing of interest, then off with his head anyways. This team should have more assets of interest.

Wait, they traded him for Laine and Roslovic so you think Valimaki + gets it done? Maybe if the + is Gaudreau or Tkachuk.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Sure. But easy to manage the team in 20/20 hindsight.

I assess if it made sense at the time. At the time I didn't like the inclusion of the first but understood the rationale.

I get it though. You want BT gone and I don't. So we are probably going to consistently disagree on every position for and against.

Ya it is not really hindsight because the Schenn deal was made right around the same time as the Hamonic deal. For almost the same value of picks. The Blues dumped a 29 year old 4.7 million dollar a year player who had 22 points, 34 points and 44 points the previous 3 seasons. The Flames had a 31 year old player who made 4.5 million and had 25 points, 39 points and 43 points the previous 3 years. Hextall wanted picks because he knew he was going to get a center at number 2 that year and also had Couturier and Filppula down the middle. He took the salary dump so he could get a second first round pick, but all he wanted was picks.

Brad had 4 dmen that had legitimately played in the top 4 the year before for the Flames. Since he is in on everything I am sure that he knew Hextall was shopping Schenn for around the same value in terms of picks as he eventually gave up for Hamonic and he would have likely known that Hextall only wanted picks. Brad had a team that had finished 16th in the league in goals for the year before. So in that moment, not hindsight, Brad wanted Hamonic and Brouwer over Schenn and whatever dman he could have got for 3.2-3.3 million.

[dino7c]

Laine and Roslovic have put up 24 points for CBJ already

So yes the Jets did make a trade, but it was a bad one. No trade is better than a bad trade.

What is the rush to make a trade before the TD or offseason? To make fans feel better?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Ya it is not really hindsight because the Schenn deal was made right around the same time as the Hamonic deal. For almost the same value of picks. The Blues dumped a 29 year old 4.7 million dollar a year player who had 22 points, 34 points and 44 points the previous 3 seasons. The Flames had a 31 year old player who made 4.5 million and had 25 points, 39 points and 43 points the previous 3 years. Hextall wanted picks because he knew he was going to get a center at number 2 that year and also had Couturier and Filppula down the middle. He took the salary dump so he could get a second first round pick, but all he wanted was picks.

Brad had 4 dmen that had legitimately played in the top 4 the year before for the Flames. Since he is in on everything I am sure that he knew Hextall was shopping Schenn for around the same value in terms of picks as he eventually gave up for Hamonic and he would have likely known that Hextall only wanted picks. Brad had a team that had finished 16th in the league in goals for the year before. So in that moment, not hindsight, Brad wanted Hamonic and Brouwer over Schenn and whatever dman he could have got for 3.2-3.3 million.

It's hindsight because Hamonic wasn't as good as many thought he would be and Schenn was better.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Laine and Roslovic have put up 24 points for CBJ already

So yes the Jets did make a trade, but it was a bad one. No trade is better than a bad trade.

What is the rush to make a trade before the TD or offseason? To make fans feel better?

Why is it such a bad trade? PLD has only played 7 games for the Jets so a little early to declare a winner.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Wait, they traded him for Laine and Roslovic so you think Valimaki + gets it done? Maybe if the + is Gaudreau or Tkachuk.

Well I didnt say that it would get it done. I just said that instead of a F you could build your offer around your most valuable D. We are deeper at D.
And why are we fixated on PLD? He is just one of many I mentioned and seems like Tre should have called Winnipeg about Laine instead.
Would we be able to find a player of PLDs pedigree? Someone here said he was on par with Lidholm. Do you do that deal?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's hindsight because Hamonic wasn't as good as many thought he would be and Schenn was better.

I would agree with that (that how they played can appear to be hindsight). But I would still say that Brad values the wrong things in my opinion. That off-season he wanted a fifth top 4 dman instead of a 5th top 6 forward. I would have made a different call, both then and now. This team, then and now, had limited depth up front, but we always go above and beyond to ensure that we have copious amounts of depth on the backend. The next season we had to trade a perfectly serviceable nhl dman in Brett Kulak because we ran out of space for him in part because we traded for Hamonic and re-signed Stone. To the best of my knowledge we have never had to trade a NHL forward because we ran out of room for him during the Treliving years.

And what is not hindsight is that both deals were available and he picked the dman over the forward for the same price and 3.3 million in additional cap hit over the next 3 years.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I would agree with that (that how they played can appear to be hindsight). But I would still say that Brad values the wrong things in my opinion. That off-season he wanted a fifth top 4 dman instead of a 5th top 6 forward. I would have made a different call, both then and now. This team, then and now, had limited depth up front, but we always go above and beyond to ensure that we have copious amounts of depth on the backend. The next season we had to trade a perfectly serviceable nhl dman in Brett Kulak because we ran out of space for him in part because we traded for Hamonic and re-signed Stone. To the best of my knowledge we have never had to trade a NHL forward because we ran out of room for him during the Treliving years.

Death by a thousand cuts.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why is it such a bad trade? PLD has only played 7 games for the Jets so a little early to declare a winner.

Its an opinion but its gonna to be pretty hard for PLD to outplay both guys...Roslovic has 14 points with CBJ there is no way I would have thrown him in. Laine is an ELITE goal scorer.

PLD had quit on his team the pressure should have been on the Jackets

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

This was my initial point. Anyone who says there is no strategy or rationale for his moves is mistaken. He’s blown some evaluations, and, for Hamonic, he overpaid.

Every NHL GM has a rationale behind each of their moves, that’s not particularly special.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Every NHL GM has a rationale behind each of their moves, that’s not particularly special.

Yes, but there are people here saying there is no plan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I would agree with that (that how they played can appear to be hindsight). But I would still say that Brad values the wrong things in my opinion. That off-season he wanted a fifth top 4 dman instead of a 5th top 6 forward. I would have made a different call, both then and now. This team, then and now, had limited depth up front, but we always go above and beyond to ensure that we have copious amounts of depth on the backend. The next season we had to trade a perfectly serviceable nhl dman in Brett Kulak because we ran out of space for him in part because we traded for Hamonic and re-signed Stone. To the best of my knowledge we have never had to trade a NHL forward because we ran out of room for him during the Treliving years.

And what is not hindsight is that both deals were available and he picked the dman over the forward for the same price and 3.3 million in additional cap hit over the next 3 years.

Hamonic was supposed to be a strong top 4 guy. I don’t know who you think was the other top 4 outside of Hamilton, Gio and Brodie. Stone was never supposed to be top 4. He was pressed into it in his previous contract, but he was purely signed as a 5-6 (and that’s another reason the money was off).

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's hindsight because Hamonic wasn't as good as many thought he would be and Schenn was better.

It is hindsight for a bunch of us randoms on CP, but Treliving has pro scouts and analytics at his disposal and he is supposed to be able to read the trends of the NHL game. He should have known that Hamonic had taken a step back, he should have known team needs and he should not have paid the Hamilton price for Hamonic under any circumstances...

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Red

Well I didnt say that it would get it done. I just said that instead of a F you could build your offer around your most valuable D. We are deeper at D.
And why are we fixated on PLD? He is just one of many I mentioned and seems like Tre should have called Winnipeg about Laine instead.
Would we be able to find a player of PLDs pedigree? Someone here said he was on par with Lidholm. Do you do that deal?

It's funny that you're so critical that a deal wasn't made yet won't even propose an offer of your own. You're not doing a very good job of proving your point. In fact, you're doing the opposite. Maybe the deal wasn't made because there wasn't a right deal to be made.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Hackey

It's funny that you're so critical that a deal wasn't made yet won't even propose an offer of your own. You're not doing a very good job of proving your point. In fact, you're doing the opposite. Maybe the deal wasn't made because there wasn't a right deal to be made.

I am not 11. I don't play GM. Why is it so hard to get? Read the trade proposals threads here or elsewhere and tell me who in their right mind would want to reduce themselves to discuss them?

To answer the highlighted question, I have nothing to offer. I am just a fan of the team.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Its an opinion but its gonna to be pretty hard for PLD to outplay both guys...Roslovic has 14 points with CBJ there is no way I would have thrown him in. Laine is an ELITE goal scorer.

PLD had quit on his team the pressure should have been on the Jackets

Early returns:

Jets with PLD 5-2-0

Blue Jackets with Laine and Rosolvic 5-7-2