The Deal With Geoff Ward

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

He really wants to coach though, he even considered an associate coach job in Toronto. If the Flames came calling I have a very hard time thinking he would say no.

That was before he moved. As I said, he just moved to Hershey to start a team. In January. Like I said, it’s not the no brainer move for him people assume.

[Wastedyouth]

Why this team hasn't put the 3M line back together, boggles the mind (the third M being Mangiapane).

That line is/was dominant.

[Vinny01]

Ward absolutely needs to go. While I have supported Treliving if he takes the fall for another failed coaching hire so be it.

Last night finally broke me. I held belief they were going to turn it around but that won’t happen. Fire Ward at least but massive changes are needed this summer

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Why this team hasn't put the 3M line back together, boggles the mind (the third M being Mangiapane).

That line is/was dominant.

Didn't he finally do that last night? Put the playoff lines back together. But at that point in the game it was about as effective as shifting deck chairs on the Titanic anyways..

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

BB isn’t just sitting there waiting for a job. He literally just moved his family to Hershey to start a Jr. A team there “to help the community”. He owns another team as well.

He has also said very divergent things about his coaching desires - at one point he insisted Minnie was his last coaching gig. Right when he was fired he said he’d like another shot. He’s 66 in a league where coaches are getting younger all the time. But that was right when he was fired and his ego may have been talking. At the very least a midseason move isn’t some no-brainer for him. His wife wouldn’t likely come with him for one thing, because of COVID.

Boudreau was making $2.6M in Minnesota.

If you call up Boudreau and offer him $3.5M -$4M per year for 3 years and he's taking that offer.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Didn't he finally do that last night? Put the playoff lines back together. But at that point in the game it was about as effective as shifting deck chairs on the Titanic anyways..

Yes they did and all 3 lines looked more cohesive even if game was out of reach.

If Lindholm wants to play center, then why not with 13 and 23. Just worried that both being centers (28 and 25) they would tend to collapse in the D zone and leave 13 by himself covering both points. Yikes!

[Ashasx]

I think the thing that's so frustrating to me is that both Boudreau and Gallant will not be on the market much longer.

It will be a matter of weeks if not days before Vancouver fires Green and you can bet they will be looking at one of these two. Seattle will be looking for a coach. There are many other coaches on the hot seat right now around the league.

If we can't make a move on Ward soon, we'll be left feeling like the Oilers after they missed out on Markstrom and Holtby in free agency.

This can't be an acceptable future for this team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I think the thing that's so frustrating to me is that both Boudreau and Gallant will not be on the market much longer.

It will be a matter of weeks if not days before Vancouver fires Green and you can bet they will be looking at one of these two. Seattle will be looking for a coach. There are many other coaches on the hot seat right now around the league.

If we can't make a move on Ward soon, we'll be left feeling like the Oilers after they missed out on Markstrom and Holtby in free agency.

This can't be an acceptable future for this team.

I think that very fact is why it’s hard to get them right now. I’m convinced Gallant is waiting for Seattle.

And I am pretty keen on Green if it’s between him and Gallant.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Boudreau was making $2.6M in Minnesota.

If you call up Boudreau and offer him $3.5M -$4M per year for 3 years and he's taking that offer.

I don’t think money is the issue for Boudreau - his Minnie contract is over. Gallant on the other hand has this year left.

I think the issues are:

A. mid-season change and the upheaval that means in their own lives
B. Pandemic, since they have to quarantine and because their wives likely won’t come with them.
C. The possibilities of waiting only a few months and having many more options, including a pretty low stress Seattle position, compared to 4 coaches in 5 years Calgary.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t think money is the issue for Boudreau - his Minnie contract is over. Gallant on the other hand has this year left.

I think the issues are:

A. mid-season change and the upheaval that means in their own lives
B. Pandemic, since they have to quarantine and because their wives likely won’t come with them.
C. The possibilities of waiting only a few months and having many more options, including a pretty low stress Seattle position, compared to 4 coaches in 5 years Calgary.

Eh, I think your last point is only half right. Coaches are like players, if not more competitive because they're that much older. I think a lot of the top guys value the challenge of taking a talented team and turning it around vs. taking on a team of middle-talent guys with low expectations.

Not that taking over a Seattle doesn't present its own challenge that would be more than appealing, but I think their egos are high enough that Calgary is more appealing for the situation it's in, not less.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Is there a single player who is playing above their expectations under Ward?

The stars are all playing poorly (JG and Lindholm at 'expectation)
The young players arent really getting any better
The role players are useless (Does the 4th line have a goal this YEAR?)
The special teams are not good - And especially bad after the first 4 games

We are outshot every game. We don't dictate any part of the game

Usually a 'bad' coach still has a strength or 2, but they bad outweighs the good.

I honestly can not name 1 good thing about this team? Is there a single player who has improved under Ward?

That should be telling enough

Milan Lucic says hi

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Is there a single player who is playing above their expectations under Ward?

The stars are all playing poorly (JG and Lindholm at 'expectation)
The young players arent really getting any better
The role players are useless (Does the 4th line have a goal this YEAR?)
The special teams are not good - And especially bad after the first 4 games

We are outshot every game. We don't dictate any part of the game

Usually a 'bad' coach still has a strength or 2, but they bad outweighs the good.

I honestly can not name 1 good thing about this team? Is there a single player who has improved under Ward?

That should be telling enough

That is the thing.

It doesn't matter what you think of him as a coach. It doesn't matter how smart of a hockey mind he is. It doesn't even matter whether any of this is his fault.

The NHL is a results league. The idea is to win. And winning is hard, the difference between winning and losing is razor-thin. You have to have your team performing at their peak in order to be successful.

And right now, not only are they not performing at their peak, or even performing relatively close to what would reasonably be expected, they are massively under=performing across the board (other than goaltending).

Every single player on the team is under-performing to expectations. Every one. I was going to exclude Mangiapane from that, but I don't even think I can do that.

At the team level, they look confused, frustrated, and disinterested (though I think disheartened and disillusioned would be more accurate)

And on top of all that, their style of play is beyond boring. The most common comments these days are people saying they are no longer interested in even watching.

Great job.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t think money is the issue for Boudreau - his Minnie contract is over. Gallant on the other hand has this year left.

I think the issues are:

A. mid-season change and the upheaval that means in their own lives
B. Pandemic, since they have to quarantine and because their wives likely won’t come with them.
C. The possibilities of waiting only a few months and having many more options, including a pretty low stress Seattle position, compared to 4 coaches in 5 years Calgary.

Don't disagree but the Flames need to make it worth his while to overcome those objections.

It just makes it even more unacceptable that Treliving stuck with Ward in the offseason and didn't even look at a Boudreau or Gallant (reportedly).

You know an in-season move is going to be tough, so you better be putting your best foot forward.

And IMO they did not do that at all with Ward. And honestly it doesn't even seem like he was that confident it would work. Usually head coaches get three year deals on their first contracts and Ward only got 2 years.

[Enoch Root]

Okay, let's agree that Lucic and Mangiapane are performing up to, or above expectations.

Two guys. One is a plodding mucker. And the other is a perpetual motor who can play a mucker's game and paly it well.

The team is not built to be a collection of muckers. But that is what Ward has them doing. Other than Lucic and Mangiapane, they can't do it. At least not well enough to win more games than they lose.

[Wastedyouth]

Also, Nordstrom.

Continuing to trot this guy out is bordering on a fireable offense.

It boggles the mind that this decision, which should be a slam dunk for any coach, keep happening.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Don't disagree.

Which just makes it even more unacceptable that Treliving stuck with Ward in the offseason and didn't even look at a Boudreau or Gallant (reportedly).

You know an in-season move is going to be tough, so you better be putting your best foot forward.

And IMO they did not do that at all with Ward. And honestly it doesn't even seem like he was that confident it would work. Usually head coaches get three year deals on their first contracts and Ward only got 2 years.

It also goes back much further than Ward. There were solid coaches available each time they needed one since the Hartley dismissal. And they seemingly never even inquired about them. Its pretty shocking when you look at the overall body of work in the coaching hiring process. Complete failure, and they threw away what could have been a fruitful period of the rebuild and getting better.
Ward was just like the special cherry on top -- its like really? We're going down the bargain bin road --- again?

[Flamenspiel]

I don’t get the Babcock thing, he was a “meany” and tried to manipulate players? Lol, what kind of cream puffs are we dealing with here? After he left the Leafs finally end up with a good first round matchup and lose.

Babcock would be a great fit for the Flames. I would probably prefer Sutter but he is a good second choice. Gallant is another one, but not BB, he is past his prime and has always fallen short.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Don't disagree but the Flames need to make it worth his while to overcome those objections.

It just makes it even more unacceptable that Treliving stuck with Ward in the offseason and didn't even look at a Boudreau or Gallant (reportedly).

You know an in-season move is going to be tough, so you better be putting your best foot forward.

And IMO they did not do that at all with Ward. And honestly it doesn't even seem like he was that confident it would work. Usually head coaches get three year deals on their first contracts and Ward only got 2 years.

Oh, two years at 900K is a guaranteed “you may be fired” contract.

The only reporting on interviews I’ve seen is one saying Treliving had done extensive interviews during the GG hire (including interviewing Ward) and he had interviewed the other guys who would have been considered. That couldn’t have included Boudreau though - he was hired.

If Green is let go I wonder if they’d look at him.

[Burning Beard]

I can't believe this Jabroni hasn't been fired yet. Unacceptable.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Is there a single player who is playing above their expectations under Ward?

The stars are all playing poorly (JG and Lindholm at 'expectation)
The young players arent really getting any better
The role players are useless (Does the 4th line have a goal this YEAR?)
The special teams are not good - And especially bad after the first 4 games

We are outshot every game. We don't dictate any part of the game

Usually a 'bad' coach still has a strength or 2, but they bad outweighs the good.

I honestly can not name 1 good thing about this team? Is there a single player who has improved under Ward?

That should be telling enough

Not just excelling, some are taking a turn for the worse. Like the usually ever reliable Backlund, who has had several games where his give-a-crap level has been very low.