Habs sack Julien, Muller - Ducharme named Interim Coach

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Firing Ward would show other coaches and free agents that this team values winning.

As others have already said, I don't think the Flames would want to pay two coaches to not coach their team, especially when one of them has a grand total of 19 games as the head coach.

Besides that, if the Flames moved on to their 5th coach in 6 years I don't think that shows anyone the Flames are serious, I think it shows the team is a bit of a mess and the inmates are running the asylum. I don't think that's too attractive to too many coaches out there.

[PaperBagger'14]

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

As others have already said, I don't think the Flames would want to pay two coaches to not coach their team, especially when one of them has a grand total of 19 games as the head coach.

Besides that, if the Flames moved on to their 5th coach in 6 years I don't think that shows anyone the Flames are serious, I think it shows the team is a bit of a mess and the inmates are running the asylum. I don't think that's too attractive to too many coaches out there.

I fully agree with your first sentence. I'm not expecting a coaching change unless things go completely off the rails this year.

The second sentence though I don't know about. I reckon good coaches can tell that a Gulutzan or a Ward isn't in the same tier as them. Have we seen either of them out coach someone in a series? If the management went to a top tier coach and told them they are sick of bargain bin coaching and will do anything to win a cup if they are hired do you think they would turn that down? Maybe but I don't think so. Only problem is you have to shell out the $$$ for a top tier coach so we will probably never know.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

As others have already said, I don't think the Flames would want to pay two coaches to not coach their team, especially when one of them has a grand total of 19 games as the head coach.

Besides that, if the Flames moved on to their 5th coach in 6 years I don't think that shows anyone the Flames are serious, I think it shows the team is a bit of a mess and the inmates are running the asylum. I don't think that's too attractive to too many coaches out there.

I hear Claude Julien is available.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

True. Gallant didn't put career tweeners on the ice in critical situations, didn't replace 1st line RWs with players who have gone an entire season without scoring, and was able to make in-game and in-season adjustments not called "line blender". Ward might have a shorter resume, but it's also a LOT more questionable in terms of player utilization and strategy. It's clear that he has alienated some players. Also, don't forget that Ward's post prior to the Flames was coaching Ottawa to league-worst special teams. The Flames on paper look considerably better than last season's bunch, but on ice the opposite appears to be true.

IMO, the level of incompetence Ward has demonstrated more than outweighs the relatively short tenure he has had.

Gallant mixed his lines often enough. Marchessault often split time between wing on the top line and C on the second. Eakin travelled up and down the lineup.

I never liked the Simon assignment but TBF other than Lindholm, who they wanted at C, who on the present roster has ever worked well consistently with those guys. It’s a different situation.

Also, as far as blending and using tweeners, Gallant experimented with Tuch, Neal and Tatar with Karlsson kin his first year, before settling in on Smith. And amazingly enough, he did, in fact, put a tweener who hadn’t ever scored in the NHL with Karlsson and Marchessault in his last year (Nicholas Roy).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

True. Gallant didn't put career tweeners on the ice in critical situations, didn't replace 1st line RWs with players who have gone an entire season without scoring, and was able to make in-game and in-season adjustments not called "line blender". Ward might have a shorter resume, but it's also a LOT more questionable in terms of player utilization and strategy. It's clear that he has alienated some players...

There is nothing remotely clear about this.

Also, don't forget that Ward's post prior to the Flames was coaching Ottawa to league-worst special teams. The Flames on paper look considerably better than last season's bunch, but on ice the opposite appears to be true.

What on earth are you talking about?

Geoff Ward has never worked for the Ottawa franchise at any point in his entire career. He was hired by Treliving as a special-teams coach after some pretty successful seasons in Boston and NJ.

IMO, the level of incompetence Ward has demonstrated more than outweighs the relatively short tenure he has had.

It certainly does when you make stuff up to suit your terribly flawed narrative.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Changing gears a bit: who does Montreal hire next year? Gallant isn’t a francophone despite his name (falling under the Rene Bourque category). Neither is Boudreau (similar). Could this be the return of Patrick Roy?

Maybe it's me but I think Boudreau would be a good fit for the Habs as he gets a lot out of his offensive players and I don't think Montreal is built to play low scoring defensive hockey.

[Toonage]

I'd love to hear Boudreau screaming in French

[GioforPM]

Ward’s gig before Calgary was the NJD. I don’t know if he was special teams coach, but their. PP% and PK% were both above league average that year. Of course, that was Hall’s MVP year.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

The second sentence though I don't know about. I reckon good coaches can tell that a Gulutzan or a Ward isn't in the same tier as them. Have we seen either of them out coach someone in a series?

Ward pretty handily out-coached Maurice in the play-in.

If the management went to a top tier coach and told them they are sick of bargain bin coaching and will do anything to win a cup if they are hired do you think they would turn that down? Maybe but I don't think so. Only problem is you have to shell out the $$$ for a top tier coach so we will probably never know.

I don't think a top-tier coach would turn down a big offer from the Flames, no, but only because of the money. I am fairly convinced that every NHL coach would think twice before jumping at the chance to lead this group of players. Every good coach knows that he can do only so much, and with how this team plays; how they handle the ebbs and flows of momentum in games; how they confront adversity I am pretty confident that an astute coach would be very hesitant about taking on the tall order of turning the group into something that they have never been.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ward’s gig before Calgary was the NJD. I don’t know if he was special teams coach, but their. PP% and PK% were both above league average that year. Of course, that was Hall’s MVP year.

He ran their powerplay I believe.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Tough situation for Treliving to be in.


Calgary is 9-9-1 - good for 20th overall in the league, and 5th in the division (both by number of points, and P%). Any way you slice it, that's a disappointment given the expectations.


Montreal is 9-5-4 - good for 10th overall in the league, and 4th in the division (both by points and P%).


Maybe it was mostly due to them slipping lately?

Last 10 games:

Calgary - 5-5-0
Montreal - 4-4-2


Julien was well into his deal with Montreal, and Ward is just 19 games in. That's a big difference of course. To fire a coach you just gave a 2 year extension to just 19 games in? That's embarrassing for Ward, but it is also embarrassing for the Flames and for the organization. I don't know what kind of 'signal' it would send around the NHL, if any at all, but firing you head coach 19 games into a 2 year deal is saying something. If the Flames came out at 1-9-9, then I would say you HAVE to do it of course, but at 9-9-1? I don't think you do.


On the other hand, Habs looked at this record and felt that they couldn't sit on the wrong coach and possibly waste the season. If Treliving has concluded that Ward is not their guy, then he SHOULD move on from Ward, regardless of optics or circumstances in my opinion. Given the expectations of this team this year, and given where they are in terms of contracts and how this may be their 'best chance' at a cup with this group, they certainly shouldn't be 'wasting a season' with the wrong coach. If a coach is wrong, you have to move on at any stage in the cycle, but especially in the cycle that the Flames feel they are right now.


I don't know what the right answer is. I personally don't feel that Ward is right for this team. I don't like the way they play, I don't like the results, I haven't enjoyed listening to this post-game press briefings, and I don't see 'head coach' in him. But what I see is most definitely a fraction of his body of work, so if Treliving is sure that Ward is the guy, then keep him. If not, move on like the less patient Habs just did, because wasting yet another season on the wrong coach is the worst outcome organizationally.

[GioforPM]

There was a huge call for Julien to be fired a year ago. Fans and media wanted Gallant. I just think they wanted to wait for the last year of his very expensive deal.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

As others have already said, I don't think the Flames would want to pay two coaches to not coach their team, especially when one of them has a grand total of 19 games as the head coach.

Besides that, if the Flames moved on to their 5th coach in 6 years I don't think that shows anyone the Flames are serious, I think it shows the team is a bit of a mess and the inmates are running the asylum. I don't think that's too attractive to too many coaches out there.

The Flames would also likely have to pay Julien more than what the Habs are paying him in order for him to even consider it.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Ward pretty handily out-coached Maurice in the play-in.


I don't think a top-tier coach would turn down a big offer from the Flames, no, but only because of the money. I am fairly convinced that every NHL coach would think twice before jumping at the chance to lead this group of players. Every good coach knows that he can do only so much, and with how this team plays; how they handle the ebbs and flows of momentum in games; how they confront adversity I am pretty confident that an astute coach would be very hesitant about taking on the tall order of turning the group into something that they have never been.

To be fair it wasn't too hard to beat the Jets losing 2 of their top 6, another bottom 6 and defenseman. I dont particularly like Maurice and his handling of young players but your example isn't cut and dry as outcoaching.

[Gaskal]

Don't think a midseason coaching change is in the books for the Flames anyway

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I'd love to hear Boudreau screaming in French

Except he doesn't speak French. But I guess if you are swearing, you only need to know a few words.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Don't think a midseason coaching change is in the books for the Flames anyway

If it is, it’s going to be internal interim for the rest of the year. And if Treliving is determined not to fire Ward at all, he maybe should have a meeting with the team and tell them there’s no chance of a coaching change so they better buy into the present system. If they are anti-Ward (which I don’t know).

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

As others have already said, I don't think the Flames would want to pay two coaches to not coach their team, especially when one of them has a grand total of 19 games as the head coach.

Besides that, if the Flames moved on to their 5th coach in 6 years I don't think that shows anyone the Flames are serious, I think it shows the team is a bit of a mess and the inmates are running the asylum. I don't think that's too attractive to too many coaches out there.

So we're really splitting hairs that he's only coached 19 games, nevermind the interim HC duties he performed?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Except he doesn't speak French.

That's mostly why I want to hear it.