2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

Man both those trades are so so bad; especially the gaudreau one. The lineup you put there is so much worse than what we are rolling out right now. Just gross

How so?

[Monahammer]

Hayton for Bennett doesn't do enough for the yotes in my opinion. We would need to add something a little juicier. Hayton still has upside, Bennett doesnt really. And Hayton has a better stat line (slightly... lol virtually identical) while being 4 years younger than Bennett this season.

[FlamesNation23]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How so?

You are trading away monahan, gaudreau, our 1st and bennett and the only blue chip player coming back is tkachuk. Don't get me wrong, hes a great player and I would love to have him but we are losing way too much to justify that addition.

In terms of the gaudreau trade, we can surely get back more than a #4 dman, a player who is very close to being an absolute bust (injuries haven't helped him) and a late 1st. I would understand if the return was konecny+ or couturier but this is nowhere close.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

You are trading away monahan, gaudreau, our 1st and bennett and the only blue chip player coming back is tkachuk. Don't get me wrong, hes a great player and I would love to have him but we are losing way too much to justify that addition.

In terms of the gaudreau trade, we can surely get back more than a #4 dman, a player who is very close to being an absolute bust (injuries haven't helped him) and a late 1st. I would understand if the return was konecny+ or couturier but this is nowhere close.

You are vastly underrating Nolan Patrick. If his migraine issue has resolved itself and everything seems to indicate that then he is absolute blue chip player. Actually he has serious #1C upside and Philly probably tells BT to go pound sand as soon as he mentions his name. That is exactly the type of player we should be targetting in a Gaudreau trade.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are vastly underrating Nolan Patrick. If his migraine issue has resolved itself and everything seems to indicate that then he is absolute blue chip player. Actually he has serious #1C upside and Philly probably tells BT to go pound sand as soon as he mentions his name. That is exactly the type of player we should be targetting in a Gaudreau trade.

The guy has been injured a ton in his career going back to junior. 2 30pt seasons and 5pts in 14 games this year. What has he done to garner the praise you are giving him right now?

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Hayton for Bennett doesn't do enough for the yotes in my opinion. We would need to add something a little juicier. Hayton still has upside, Bennett doesnt really. And Hayton has a better stat line (slightly... lol virtually identical) while being 4 years younger than Bennett this season.

I agree it wouldn't be straight up. Might be too expensive for the risk but he's the type of player I would target for now. Unless the Flames want to commit to a full rebuild which I doubt they do then they need to look at replacing higher price players for lower price players with upside

Bennett
Backlund
Gio
Ryan

For me these guys go for guys that make about half what they do allows us to resign players and maybe add the core moving forward. Imo Backlund and Gio are harder to replace. Going to need to find someone with good upside or have it come from within

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The guy has been injured a ton in his career going back to junior. 2 30pt seasons and 5pts in 14 games this year. What has he done to garner the praise you are giving him right now?

His point totals are on par given his age and ice time. I am not giving him any praise, I am going by what expert hockey scouts and people in the business say. Players are not a bust at his age and if he is past his migraine issues the sky is the limit. Funny how people say no way in hell you could have gotten PLD one for one for Gaudreau yet Patrick who has as much if not more upside is a bust. This place is weird sometimes.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

His point totals are on par given his age and ice time. I am not giving him any praise, I am going by what expert hockey scouts and people in the business say. Players are not a bust at his age and if he is past his migraine issues the sky is the limit. Funny how people say no way in hell you could have gotten PLD one for one for Gaudreau yet Patrick who has as much if not more upside is a bust. This place is weird sometimes.

I don't know how weird that is.
PLD is already a front line player with potential to be even better
Nolan Patrick is not yet a front line player with potential to be one.

No surprise that PLD is worth more.

[theg69]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

His point totals are on par given his age and ice time. I am not giving him any praise, I am going by what expert hockey scouts and people in the business say. Players are not a bust at his age and if he is past his migraine issues the sky is the limit. Funny how people say no way in hell you could have gotten PLD one for one for Gaudreau yet Patrick who has as much if not more upside is a bust. This place is weird sometimes.

This is getting ridiculous. PLD is a different tier of player. That’s an awful comparison. He is the same age as Patrick despite being drafted a year earlier (earlier birthday). Dubois had as many goals as Patrick had points in 2018-19. (27 goals vs 31 points). These two players are NOT comparable. You are severely overrating Patrick. I would be disappointed in a 1 for 1 deal with our only player that has any amount of top tier skill/talent. Regardless of what your scouting says, PLD has significantly more value than Nolan Patrick - I mean if Patrick can fetch Laine, I’m sure philly would have been all over that trade already.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by theg69

This is getting ridiculous. PLD is a different tier of player. That’s an awful comparison. He is the same age as Patrick despite being drafted a year earlier (earlier birthday). Dubois had as many goals as Patrick had points in 2018-19. (27 goals vs 31 points). These two players are NOT comparable. You are severely overrating Patrick. I would be disappointed in a 1 for 1 deal with our only player that has any amount of top tier skill/talent. Regardless of what your scouting says, PLD has significantly more value than Nolan Patrick - I mean if Patrick can fetch Laine, I’m sure philly would have been all over that trade already.

I didn't say his current value is where PLD is, I said his upside is comparable and it is. Saying PLD is a tier above when Patrick had issues that had to be resolved before we can even know that is ridiculous. To each their own though.

[dissentowner]

A good article on Patrick when he was starting his comeback.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelph...-nhl-offseason

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I didn't say his current value is where PLD is, I said his upside is comparable and it is. Saying PLD is a tier above when Patrick had issues that had to be resolved before we can even know that is ridiculous. To each their own though.

I guess it is just tough to see that upside when you look at the history of the player. Always highly praised as a junior but he also had a ton of injuries and played 2 seasons in the NHL where he put a reasonable 30pts then missed another full season. Pretty mediocre number so far this year and he is 22 already. He has missed a lot of time so questioning his upside is far from ridiculous. I question his durability and the numbers don’t really show a budding superstar like it appeared he would become in junior.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I guess it is just tough to see that upside when you look at the history of the player. Always highly praised as a junior but he also had a ton of injuries and played 2 seasons in the NHL where he put a reasonable 30pts then missed another full season. Pretty mediocre number so far this year and he is 22 already. He has missed a lot of time so questioning his upside is far from ridiculous. I question his durability and the numbers don’t really show a budding superstar like it appeared he would become in junior.

Fair enough, everyone has a view and I can respect that. To me he represents a chance to get a #1 young centre in the making. It really depends on if Gaudreau is planning to walk and what his perceived value is. Worst case is Gaudreau walks for nothing in 2 years.

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't watch the Sabres much. Is Eichel really that good, like "$10 million cap hit good?

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't watch the Sabres much. Is Eichel really that good, like "$10 million cap hit good?

I think this is a valid question. I don't watch them a lot either but with a flat cap for the next year or 2 his cap hit isn't getting better for awhile either. He probably is worth $10 mil but it definitely isn't a plus value contract.

IMO this is why a team that goes for him needs to be on the verge of winning and have a cap situation that is solid for a couple years and has a bunch of high end prospects.

If the Flames make a run Tkachuk has to be in the deal. Monahan and Gaudreau just won't get it done with 1 and 2 years left on there deals. Tkachuk is the one guy that has big value and keeping him with Eichel would create a huge cap problem in 1 year so he makes the most sense

But does Buffalo want him over Eichel if Tkachuk is getting $9 mil in 1 year because from what I've seen it's questionable he is worth that much either.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't watch the Sabres much. Is Eichel really that good, like "$10 million cap hit good?

He’s absolutely $10mil cap hit good. I didn’t think I had undervalued him until I read the most recent pages in this thread, as he certainly isn’t trade half your roster away good.

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't watch the Sabres much. Is Eichel really that good, like "$10 million cap hit good?

I've more or less watched every Sabres game (unfortunately) since Eichel entered the league. I would say he is a top 5 talent in the league tbh, a step below McDavid and Mack, but right there with Matthews. He has never had a Draisaitl, Rantanen, or Marner to play with but he can take over games on his own.
Some people question his compete but I think a lot of that has to do with how bad that team has been and how discouraging that can be.

[Derek Sutton]

I think Hayton is someone you certainly target, but a 20 year old potential team captain comes at a price. Bennett and a second? I dunno what gets it done.

[3rd Degree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ya, get it done Tre and totally sewer the team in the process. Wtf are you thinking here?

How would the team be sewered after this trade? It’s sewered now. Gaudreau folds in the playoffs and is not worth signing to a huge long term extension. Gio’s value is dropping by the day. If you can retool on the fly and acquire a young stud Center, you do it. You do it at all costs. You also free up a ton of cap space to bring in another top 6 winger. Moves like this are how you build a winner. The status quo will lead to the perpetual 1st round exits we all know and love.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ya, get it done Tre and totally sewer the team in the process. Wtf are you thinking here?

Honestly it's not that bad and the idea is right.

Hypothecially if you can move Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, and Gio for picks and younger pieces, and then turn those picks into Eichel you probably come out ahead.

Lets even use the trade you proposed as the framework.

Example:

Gaudreau to Philly for Gostisbehere, Patrick, PHI 1st

Trade Gio to Toronto for Kerfoot, Holl, TOR 1st

Then you trade to Buffalo:

Monahan, Holl, Bennett, PHI 1st, TOR 1st, EDM 3rd for Eichel (Might have to add another pick or prospect here - but overall it's similar to value in Seguin, ROR, and Duchene trades which are closest comparables)

Then the roster looks like:

Tkachuk - Eichel - Lindholm
Mangiapane - Backlund - Patrick
Lucic - Kerfoot - Dube
Nordstrom - Ryan - Leivo
Simon

Hanifin - Tanev
Valimaki - Andersson
Gostisbehere - Mackey
Nesterov

Markstrom
Rittich

And that lineup is only $78.6M which would leave them with over $2.5M in cap space to still add another piece, and you have all your own draft picks still.

And just because I wanted to remind myself what the other trades were:

Seguin + Peverley for Eriksson, Morrow, Smith, Fraser

RoR for Sobotka, Berglund, Thompson, 1st STL, 2nd STL

Duchene for Girard, Bowers, Kamenev, 1st OTT, 2nd NSH, 3rd OTT,

So i'd say Monahan, 2 1sts, a 3rd, plus Bennett and Holl is close to these other packages for top centers.