[PGT] Flames Lose to Canucks by a lot of goals

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It is possible it is a combination of averge coaching as well as a core that just doesn't click/work/win.

It's definitely both. I know I bring this up a lot but I think it's an interesting talking point. According to Burke, Gulutzan's biggest downfall was that he let the Vets walk all over him. I think we're seeing that again with Ward.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Please don't talk down to me.

Just because you and others have had the same conversation doesn't mean you're right.

There's one constant with this underachieving/mediocre core. It's not the coach.

Then why did that same core overachieve in 2014-15?

It’s not as neat and tidy as you think it is just because you want to that the lazy negative take.

[memphusk]

This team feels like the Kings 2 years after they won 2 cups.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by zamler

You're right we don't. But even elite players can be stifled by a no nothing coach it happened to Crosby when Johnston was HC. Entire Pittsburgh team was lifeless.

I agree, but you miss my point. Yes Ward needs to go. We replace him with Gallant and we might see a small uptick in results. We might even go on a bit of a run like we saw with Hartley and Peters. Then we will cool off and fall back down to Earth and resume being mediocre. And all the while Johnny and Mony and Chucky get older and eventually less effective, and we start the cycle again, except this time we have good coach and no players.

I know you want Ward gone asap. I agree. Getting a real coach is a start. What I don't agree with is whether that will make any difference in the grand scheme of things. We have too many pieces missing.

[Mass_nerder]

I have a 5 month old kid who takes to a lot of my time. I get a chance to watch maybe 2/3 periods. Because of this, I've been a lot less emotionally invested. I don't have the time out energy to really get worked up like I would have.
It's really making this season a lot more enjoyable, even though we're kind of heading toward being a bubble team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It is possible it is a combination of averge coaching as well as a core that just doesn't click/work/win.

Thing is - it’s not just that every coach has failed but maybe they’re all bad coaches. Because we’ve seen this core look good under every single coach they’ve had. Including Ward. Including GG.

Look at the power play. It was hot at the beginning of the year, now it’s not. Don’t tell me that Ward changed the system to a bad one. They just aren’t executing.

Look at their comebacks. Did Ward coach better in the second half of those games or did the players just start playing better?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It is possible it is a combination of averge coaching as well as a core that just doesn't click/work/win.

That means gut the core, can the coach and GM.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by btimbit

It's definitely both. I know I bring this up a lot but I think it's an interesting talking point. According to Burke, Gulutzan's biggest downfall was that he let the Vets walk all over him. I think we're seeing that again with Ward.

Maybe. Will they pay to bring in Bruce Boudreau? I doubt it. I think they’re still paying Peters.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Maybe. Will they pay to bring in Bruce Boudreau? I doubt it. I think they’re still paying Peters.

You want a tougher coach and then you say Boudreau?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by browna

Benn’s was a fluke. He flubbed the shot with a half open net but luckily went in between the legs. Markstrom needed a rest after trying to get mentally up for 4 straight games vs teammates, but it was the right call, as a 80% Markstrom is vastly superior to Rittich. Zero confidence in Rittich and the Flames will have to score 5 or more to beat the Oilers with him in net Friday.

So, back to this mini series; pretty much all 4 games the Canucks were the more prepared team from the drop of the puck, and each game were ready for what the Flames were going to throw at them, making subtle adjustments to combat what they thought the Flames were going to come at them with, based on the way the Flames played them in first game they played a few weeks back. Flames game to game adjustments this series were some line up changes mostly forced because of injuries.
The other “strategy” is throw the lines in the blender for short spurts and hope ice cream magically pops out.

Like GG 3 years ago, if the players don’t have the confidence that the coach can figure this all out, it’s going to demoralize things further and players are going to start playing for themselves because the coach doesn’t have the answers.

So Rittich ... let’s get some perspective. Another viewpoint is that he

- was an all star
- “faltered” each of the last two seasons down the stretch
* had injuries each of the last two seasons coinciding with faltering
- was thrown to the wolves in a ridiculously stupid pull last playoffs after not playing for a long time
- hasn’t had much playing time so far this year

The guy is fine as a goalie. You might want to work on your own confidence in him, and let him worry about himself

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Realize we aren't supposed to speak openly and show any cynism with the team, despite the same patterns they always show...

As such, umm, coach is good. Roster is good. Solid effort against a team that's in a much more desperate spot than the flames. Take this as a moral victory, play like they did as they did in this 4 game series, flames will definitely win... Umm, at a 0.500 clip.

But enjoy those wins, or be considered a fair weather fan.

��

You're a focus on the negatives guy (very much so) which is your choice but you think spreading that negativity around is ok. Some people can't stand overly negative attitudes - they just suck.

Why do you think people want to roll around in the filth? Why don't you just start writing that #### n a diary ?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Look at their comebacks. Did Ward coach better in the second half of those games or did the players just start playing better?

They stopped playing the buzz kill system and things started to click.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It is possible it is a combination of averge coaching as well as a core that just doesn't click/work/win.

It is possible.
And what most of us are saying is let's test that by getting a good coach and seeing what he can do with this core.

If we don't test that, we'll never know.
If the core is still a bust with a quality coach, then at least we'll know it's blow it up time for sure.

[CSharp]

Wow, the whole team sucked, except for Manggo’s goal. What the heck is Markstrom doing getting way out of his net? The D is horrendous! Is this where this board calls to blow it up?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by zamler

They stopped playing the buzz kill system and things started to click.

LOL. So when they play badly it’s the coach, when they play well, it’s the players. Got it.

[SuperMatt18]

Plus this idea that this team has been broken for a long time is so flawed. The team has made substantial changes over the last 2 1/2 seasons.

Look back at the end of the 17-18 roster and the changes since then of “core” (longer than 1 year deals) on this roster:

Here in 17-18: Gio, Backlund, Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Bennett

New since then: Lindholm, Mangiapane, Dube, Lucic, Ryan, Hanifin, Tanev, Andersson, Valimaki, Markstrom

Only 6 guys are still the same from those years! We’ve turned over 75% of the roster.

This isn’t the same team. This is a better team than Hartley had, this is a better team than Gulutzan had, this is a better team than Peters had.

Sure the players aren’t perfect but Ward is getting less out of a better roster than any of his predecessors did before him. The guy is just not an NHL coach.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

You're a focus on the negatives guy (very much so) which is your choice but you think spreading that negativity around is ok. Some people can't stand overly negative attitudes - they just suck.

Why do you think people want to roll around in the filth? Why don't you just start writing that #### n a diary ?

Because for some, misery loves company. It's ok.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Then why did that same core overachieve in 2014-15?

It’s not as neat and tidy as you think it is just because you want to that the lazy negative take.

That team won 1 round in the playoffs.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL. So when they play badly it’s the coach, when they play well, it’s the players. Got it.

All teams abandon their system when they're down (or up!) multiple goals, and score effects take over.

I think the only place you can really evaluate coaches(re: system) is when the game is close or tied.

The Flames play badly when the game is close or tied. Period.

Now, coaches can be evaluated for their player usage when the scores are lopsided. And Ward, much like GG, loves his four line insanity even when trailing.

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

That team won 1 round in the playoffs.

That team was considered the frontrunner rosterwise for drafting Connor McDavid and beat a 100 pt team in the playoffs below-average goaltending.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So Rittich ... let’s get some perspective. Another viewpoint is that he

- was an all star
- “faltered” each of the last two seasons down the stretch
* had injuries each of the last two seasons coinciding with faltering
- was thrown to the wolves in a ridiculously stupid pull last playoffs after not playing for a long time
- hasn’t had much playing time so far this year

The guy is fine as a goalie. You might want to work on your own confidence in him, and let him worry about himself

Flames have been known to play exactly like tonight down the stretch and into the playoffs. If they play like this with crappy defense, even the best goalie in the world will look bad. Can’t blame everything on the goalies.