The Deal With Geoff Ward

[mrdonkey]

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

This is pretty unbelievable. This is a team that, in order to find success, needs to own north and south hockey and creating opportunities off the rush.

The fact that this is the worst team at obtaining the zone and preventing their opponent says terrible things about Ward.

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Nothing in that article contradicts what I watched last night.

bUt wHy cAnT tHEy jUSt mAKe a 5-fOoT-pAsS

The players aren’t free from blame but to think that the coaching staff isn’t contributing to the problems is ridiculous.

IMO Ward is worse than Gulutzan was from a system perspective, and is worse from a bench management point of view too.

Ward has the best roster available to him compared to any of the Flames previous coaches with this core, and IMO he’s getting the least out of them. He’s only been more successful because he gotten the best goaltending of any of the four coaches.

[Johnhitbox]

Before you say, it's because of the pandemic year. I just want to ask the question, why hasn't anything been done from either the GM, or the owners for thr past couple seasons? We've seen this team fall into a pretty big decline since just before the all star break of 2019.

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[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I consider losing the puck because you skate into coverage and have to chip (and the you lose the puck battle) the same as a turnover.

The reason the Backlund line has had success is because Mangiapane and Lucic win their chips. Johnny and Chucky have been losing theirs. Bennett tries to carry through the opposition.

So Maybe Ward should try to help Gaudreau, Chucky and Bennett with a system better suited to their skills? Gaudreau has never had success as a chip and chase player, but he has had success scoring off the rush and carrying the puck into the zone.

It seems the only time Ward wants Gaudreau to carry the puck into the zone is on the PP when 4 players are lined up and are ready.

He could also try breaking up Gaudreau/Monahan and Tkachuk/Lindholm. Or move Lindholm to the top line and reunite Backlund and Tkachuk.

Instead he shuffles 4th line plugs along the wings.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

So Maybe Ward should try to help Gaudreau, Chucky and Bennett with a system better suited to their skills? Gaudreau has never had success as a chip and chase player, but he has had success scoring off the rush and carrying the puck into the zone.

It seems the only time Ward wants Gaudreau to carry the puck into the zone is on the PP when 4 players are lined up and are ready.

He could also try breaking up Gaudreau/Monahan and Tkachuk/Lindholm. Or move Lindholm to the top line and reunite Backlund and Tkachuk.

Instead he shuffles 4th line plugs along the wings.

Fully agree. Make the system one that suits your best players.

We finally get out of the bargain bin for a goalie but have the ultimate Dollarama coach. It's so frustrating.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The players aren’t free from blame but to think that the coaching staff isn’t contributing to the problems is ridiculous.

IMO Ward is worse than Gulutzan was from a system perspective, and is worse from a bench management point of view too.

Ward has the best roster available to him compared to any of the Flames previous coaches with this core, and IMO he’s getting the least out of them. He’s only been more successful because he gotten the best goaltending of any of the four coaches.

I mean, this makes total sense. Ward is not a head coach. He was brought on from NJ to run the power play, not design 5v5 systems or run the bench. How many people are successful learning on the job at the NHL level?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

Before you say, it's because of the pandemic year. I just want to ask the question, why hasn't anything been done from either the GM, or the owners for thr past couple seasons? We've seen this team fall into a pretty big decline since just before the all star break of 2019.

Sent from my SM-N986W using Tapatalk

Well the GM did bring in Markstrom and Tanev so that’s not nothing.

I think trades in the NHL are probably a lot harder than we think to make, especially hockey trades.

There is what 2 maybe 3 big hockey trades a season in the NHL?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Really if you are mostly a small skilled group of forwards and your coach is telling you to just dump the puck in and then defend while generating no offense at all would you give a crap? Skilled players like to have the puck, when your coach wants you to give possession away every rush you start not caring and who can blame them? I don't.

This a thousand times over.

I really feel that if the players were just allowed to go out there and play shinny hockey, they would have more success.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Well the GM did bring in Markstrom and Tanev so that’s not nothing.

I think trades in the NHL are probably a lot harder than we think to make, especially hockey trades.

There is what 2 maybe 3 big hockey trades a season in the NHL?

I hear this a lot, yet there are other teams able to make deals. Why are we unable to?

I believe the answer is that the book is out on our core. Soft as butter and low compete level. As such, other gms aren’t willing to surrender the right kind of assets to obtain them, resulting in low ball offers. So Treliving has to keep doubling down on them hoping that something clicks. I hope I’m wrong, but for the life of me I can’t comprehend why he brought the same group back with their track record.

It seems like we are buying time until players like Pelletier and Zary and other draftees with high gaf meters are ready. What we have now isn’t the answer, no matter who is coaching the team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

So Maybe Ward should try to help Gaudreau, Chucky and Bennett with a system better suited to their skills? Gaudreau has never had success as a chip and chase player, but he has had success scoring off the rush and carrying the puck into the zone.

It seems the only time Ward wants Gaudreau to carry the puck into the zone is on the PP when 4 players are lined up and are ready.

He could also try breaking up Gaudreau/Monahan and Tkachuk/Lindholm. Or move Lindholm to the top line and reunite Backlund and Tkachuk.

Instead he shuffles 4th line plugs along the wings.

He could try those things all right. But of course, that ignores that Monahan and Gaudreau got off to a hot start, and so did Tkachuk and Lindholm, and ignores the success of Backlund’s current line mates. But you are wrong about what he wants Gaudreau to do, as evidenced by the fact Johnny constantly carries the puck into the zone (and then loses it).

The issue here is that everyone is so invested in these players, and therefore they have to invent a universe where, if only the coach would use some imaginary “system” which isn’t being coached now, they would suddenly have different results than the past 6 years.

[Johnhitbox]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Well the GM did bring in Markstrom and Tanev so that’s not nothing.



I think trades in the NHL are probably a lot harder than we think to make, especially hockey trades.



There is what 2 maybe 3 big hockey trades a season in the NHL?

A good Gm would see past the fact that goaltending wasn't the main problem. He's maid plenty of moves on the defense as well.

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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I hear this a lot, yet there are other teams able to make deals. Why are we unable to?

I believe the answer is that the book is out on our core. Soft as butter and low compete level. As such, other gms aren’t willing to surrender the right kind of assets to obtain them, resulting in low ball offers. So Treliving has to keep doubling down on them hoping that something clicks. I hope I’m wrong, but for the life of me I can’t comprehend why he brought the same group back with their track record.

It seems like we are buying time until players like Pelletier and Zary and other draftees with high gaf meters are ready. What we have now isn’t the answer, no matter who is coaching the team.

What other single GM has made more big deals than Treliving?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What other single GM has made more big deals than Treliving?

The only others that jump to mind are Kekalainen and maybe Poile.

[Toonage]

Bergevin too I suppose

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I hear this a lot, yet there are other teams able to make deals. Why are we unable to?

I believe the answer is that the book is out on our core. Soft as butter and low compete level. As such, other gms aren’t willing to surrender the right kind of assets to obtain them, resulting in low ball offers. So Treliving has to keep doubling down on them hoping that something clicks. I hope I’m wrong, but for the life of me I can’t comprehend why he brought the same group back with their track record.

What other big hockey trades have happened that included "core" players in the last three years?

Dubois for Laine...but those two were always going to be traded for one another after both requested trades.

Trocheck for Haula, Wallmark, Priskie, Luostarinen...do wish the Flames were able to make this one to get Trocheck.

Faulk for Edmunson + Bokk ... no real fit for the Flames here

Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot ... Flames actually made this deal & Kadri refused to waive his NTC.

JT Miller for a 1st...Critized this trade for the Canucks when they made it but it's worked out good for them.

Trouba for 1st and Pionk .... Trouba only wanted to play in NYC

I'd argue the biggest "hockey" trade of the last three offseasons was actually made by this GM.

Hanifin & Linhdolm for Hamilton, Ferland, Fox

Trades don't happen in the NHL frequent enough. This isn't a Brad Treliving problem, it's an NHL problem. NHL GMs in general are too afraid to make trades.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What other single GM has made more big deals than Treliving?

Treliving likes to make deals. I remember when Phoenix was making a lot of trades back in the day, wasn't Brad the AGM? Team never improved though.

So maybe this is a guy that just really likes to keep busy, all these inquires that we hear about would suggest that.

But we don't need a GM that will make a deal, we need one that will make the right deal. This team needs a better top line. Has for years, really.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Yamer

The only others that jump to mind are Kekalainen and maybe Poile.

I think that’s recency bias. Kekalainen, aside from the Laine deal, has acquired Dzingel and Duchene as rentals in 2019 and did an RFA rights deal for Domi (but traded the better player away). If you go back 4 years you can get to his Panarin trade, which didn’t work out at all.

[Red]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

What other big hockey trades have happened that included "core" players in the last three years?

Dubois for Laine...but those two were always going to be traded for one another after both requested trades.

Trocheck for Haula, Wallmark, Priskie, Luostarinen...do wish the Flames were able to make this one to get Trocheck.

Faulk for Edmunson + Bokk ... no real fit for the Flames here

Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot ... Flames actually made this deal & Kadri refused to waive his NTC.

JT Miller for a 1st...Critized this trade for the Canucks when they made it but it's worked out good for them.

Trouba for 1st and Pionk .... Trouba only wanted to play in NYC

I'd argue the biggest "hockey" trade of the last three offseasons was actually made by this GM.

Hanifin & Linhdolm for Hamilton, Ferland, Fox

Trades don't happen in the NHL frequent enough. This isn't a Brad Treliving problem, it's an NHL problem. NHL GMs in general are too afraid to make trades.

Brad's been here 7 years and your 3 years includes a covid year, which may be a factor too. I think he had a lot of opportunities.

[GioforPM]

Treliving has tried to do something about the top line but he’s gone the wrong way with Neal and Brouwer, thinking they needed size and in close hands. But let’s face it, Johnny and Monahan are hard guys to play with. You need a speedy, gritty, defensive minded guy who also has good offensive chops. Lindholm was the answer for a while.

I’d like to see Ward break them up. It’s a really hard thing to do and I think you’d have to be ready for a slump while they figured out playing without each other.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think that’s recency bias. Kekalainen, aside from the Laine deal, has acquired Dzingel and Duchene as rentals in 2019 and did an RFA rights deal for Domi (but traded the better player away). If you go back 4 years you can get to his Panarin trade, which didn’t work out at all.

Ok, by that standard what has Treliving done besides the biggie with Carolina?