[News] All-encompassing Bennett trade discussions thread

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

I'm a Flames fan first and foremost and care about the overall success of the TEAM. Individual glory doesn't excite me. When we start focusing on the individual players over the success of the team that tells me we're not very good. The focus on Bennett is one of those moments, because he does so little and the success is not there.

I re-watched the game this morning to make sure I wasn't missing something and my gut feel after the game that the line was neutered was validated. Monahan's line generated almost nothing last night. The stats line shows Monahan with a shot and Gaudreau with two. Sam Bennett had one. Is that what you really call that a good night? I have much higher expectations for the line that was carrying this team out of the gate. I expect that type of shot generation each period, not for a full game. For comparison sake, the centers on the other lines each had more shots than the entire line Bennett was on. Not a good night IMO. This is not a line that is designed to just spend time cycling the puck, this is a line that should be scoring goals. Since Bennett has been put on the line Monahan and Gaudreau each have three shots on goal, over two games. This is a good trend? Bennett may be playing with a little more jump, but when it drags down you two best offensive players to where their production is minimal, that's a mistake.

Bennett has done next to nothing this season, but last night was the exception.

I agree that the line looked awful in Winnipeg, and got outplayed until the third against Edmonton. Those are solid observations.

But don't agree on last night ...

First they had a 4-1 high danger split and some solid zone time. Given the chaotic season that Monahan and Gaudreau had last year (out metric'd in almost every way), a combination that has them out of their zone is already a step in the right direction even if they didn't generate much last night, as you said.

You want them playing downhill, not uphill, and then the talent will result in goals.

Will that be the case going forward? I honestly don't know. Bennett's track record this season is moribund enough that I'm not taking one game as a harbinger of a turnaround. Same size just isn't there.

But last night isolated was a good performance for the Gaudreau/Monahan duo and Bennett certainly contributed to creating more offensive zone time.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yep this is it.

This also assumes you're a fan of hockey, and not just having your tribev be successful. If you enjoy the actual game, then you enjoy watching the players that play the game and develop an attachment to those on your team.

Team first? Of course. But the players aren't interchangeable, faceless machines. They are actually why we like the game.

I find as I've gotten older I have fewer favorite players and it has become even more about the team. When I was younger, there were always guys I specifically rooted for but when they got dealt - it sucked.

There are guys that I do find myself cheering for right now, but moreso because I know they are quality human beings off the ice. That's why in recent years probably my favorite Flames are Backlund and Gio. I also love it when Lucic plays well because he seems like a great guy too.

David Rittich is also really easy to cheer for.

Going back a little further, Robyn Regehr was probably my favorite player from that era of the team.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I have also found that as I've gotten older I'm using the phrase "as I've gotten older" a lot more .

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

But the players aren't interchangeable, faceless machines. They are actually why we like the game.

Disagree. Winning is why we like the game. You could have a bunch of faceless robots out there and people would come and cheer so long as they won. You could have a team full of Anthony Deangelos out there and the crowds would come to watch so long as the team won. Winning solves all problems in professional sports.

This has become the evolution of team sports. Players have become very mercenary in their approach to the game and as a result you are better off having an attachment for the jersey, not the name on it. I started that mantra on this site a long time ago (I cheer for the jersey, not the clowns wearing it) and I stand by it. I don't get sentimentally attached to players as they are all replaceable. It's why I didn't care about Iginla leaving and was demanding we trade him two years prior. I saw the writing on the wall and I knew what was coming. Anyone who gets attached to a player is a fool. Players have more loyalty to their union than the teams who pay them, and that's all you need to know.

The last player I was really emotionally invested in was Lanny McDonald, and I learned a lesson from that championship team. We watched our heroes leave this team one-by-one for selfish reasons and that made me realize players are a cog in the machine and an asset that needs to be properly managed so the team continues to move forward toward success. So I really don't give a #### about any of the individual players on the team. They will come and they will go, as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Sam Bennett will be gone soon enough. Johnny Hockey and Matthew Tkachuk will leave too. Almost every player on this team is going to leave before their playing days are done. No need for sentimentality over it, it is the new nature of the game. So long as we can move the players when the time is right and we get value back, the cycle will continue. When the cycle is broken, that's when dark days will return.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

Disagree. Winning is why we like the game. You could have a bunch of faceless robots out there and people would come and cheer so long as they won. You could have a team full of Anthony Deangelos out there and the crowds would come to watch so long as the team won. Winning solves all problems in professional sports.

This has become the evolution of team sports. Players have become very mercenary in their approach to the game and as a result you are better off having an attachment for the jersey, not the name on it. I started that mantra on this site a long time ago (I cheer for the jersey, not the clowns wearing it) and I stand by it. I don't get sentimentally attached to players as they are all replaceable. It's why I didn't care about Iginla leaving and was demanding we trade him two years prior. I saw the writing on the wall and I knew what was coming. Anyone who gets attached to a player is a fool. Players have more loyalty to their union than the teams who pay them, and that's all you need to know.

The last player I was really emotionally invested in was Lanny McDonald, and I learned a lesson from that championship team. We watched our heroes leave this team one-by-one for selfish reasons and that made me realize players are a cog in the machine and an asset that needs to be properly managed so the team continues to move forward toward success. So I really don't give a #### about any of the individual players on the team. They will come and they will go, as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Sam Bennett will be gone soon enough. Johnny Hockey and Matthew Tkachuk will leave too. Almost every player on this team is going to leave before their playing days are done. No need for sentimentality over it, it is the new nature of the game. So long as we can move the players when the time is right and we get value back, the cycle will continue. When the cycle is broken, that's when dark days will return.

We watch sports very, very differently. Probably why we don't see eye to eye on some topics, which is all good - good to understand where you're coming from.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I have also found that as I've gotten older I'm using the phrase "as I've gotten older" a lot more .

Just wait until that changes to:

"when I was your age"

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by New Era

Disagree. Winning is why we like the game. You could have a bunch of faceless robots out there and people would come and cheer so long as they won. You could have a team full of Anthony Deangelos out there and the crowds would come to watch so long as the team won. Winning solves all problems in professional sports.

This has become the evolution of team sports. Players have become very mercenary in their approach to the game and as a result you are better off having an attachment for the jersey, not the name on it. I started that mantra on this site a long time ago (I cheer for the jersey, not the clowns wearing it) and I stand by it. I don't get sentimentally attached to players as they are all replaceable. It's why I didn't care about Iginla leaving and was demanding we trade him two years prior. I saw the writing on the wall and I knew what was coming. Anyone who gets attached to a player is a fool. Players have more loyalty to their union than the teams who pay them, and that's all you need to know.

The last player I was really emotionally invested in was Lanny McDonald, and I learned a lesson from that championship team. We watched our heroes leave this team one-by-one for selfish reasons and that made me realize players are a cog in the machine and an asset that needs to be properly managed so the team continues to move forward toward success. So I really don't give a #### about any of the individual players on the team. They will come and they will go, as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Sam Bennett will be gone soon enough. Johnny Hockey and Matthew Tkachuk will leave too. Almost every player on this team is going to leave before their playing days are done. No need for sentimentality over it, it is the new nature of the game. So long as we can move the players when the time is right and we get value back, the cycle will continue. When the cycle is broken, that's when dark days will return.

I hear you. But I enjoy the game of hockey so it's not just winning. That's why I will watch some sports over others.

That's also why I like the Olympics. I am 100% Canada first but enjoy watching certain sports just to enjoy the competition even if I don't care who wins.

No doubt, this is one of those "no right answer". It's a personal preference.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Let me get this straight. Winning is why we watch hockey. The team winning, no matter who the players. That’s why we watch hockey. Reinforcing our obsession with finding faults in one particular player though, that is why we re-watch hockey?

*backs out slowly, closes door*

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I find as I've gotten older I have fewer favorite players and it has become even more about the team. When I was younger, there were always guys I specifically rooted for but when they got dealt - it sucked.

There are guys that I do find myself cheering for right now, but moreso because I know they are quality human beings off the ice. That's why in recent years probably my favorite Flames are Backlund and Gio. I also love it when Lucic plays well because he seems like a great guy too.

David Rittich is also really easy to cheer for.

Going back a little further, Robyn Regehr was probably my favorite player from that era of the team.

I have also gotten older.

I think I'm having the reverse reaction. I find myself caring less and less about what athletes do off the ice, at least insofar as how I experience the sport. I find myself focused more on the athletic competition piece of it.

[Enoch Root]

So if the team sucks and is rebuilding, you stop being a fan for a while?

I think there is a lot more to being a fan and enjoying sports than 'winning'

[jaikorven]

^^ Agreed

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I have also found that as I've gotten older I'm using the phrase "as I've gotten older" a lot more .

Reminds me of the 3 phases of male maturation.

1. My dad can beat up your dad.

2. My dad doesn’t know poop from shinola.

3. My dad used to say....

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I hear you. But I enjoy the game of hockey so it's not just winning. That's why I will watch some sports over others.

That's also why I like the Olympics. I am 100% Canada first but enjoy watching certain sports just to enjoy the competition even if I don't care who wins.

No doubt, this is one of those "no right answer". It's a personal preference.

And as you watch those, are you really that emotionally invested in them? No, you're not. You get emotionally invested in things that have deep meaning to you. International sports is a great example. I will always cheer for Canada because it is where I was born and what made me who I am. Even though I'm American I will always cheer for Canada first. The thing that is really mind blowing, I don't care who wears the jersey, just that they are wearing the jersey! I may not know any of them in any way, but because they wear the maple leaf, that's good enough for me. That is where the emotional investment is, not in the current athlete who is donning the jersey. It is why I will always been a Flames fan. I am emotionally invested in the Flaming C, not the guys who wear it.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So if the team sucks and is rebuilding, you stop being a fan for a while?

I think there is a lot more to being a fan and enjoying sports than 'winning'

I don't stop being a fan, but my dedication and interest certainly wanes. Yes, I am still emotionally vested in my team, but if they are going to be losing all the time, and take much of the joy out of watching the game, then why subject myself to misery? Those are times where maybe I don't take in as many games or watch the standings like I used to. Winning is fun. Losing sucks. If you don't think it is still very relevant, watch the game threads when we're winning and when we're losing. Check the number of people logged in and in the thread. Winning brings people to follow the team and to the site.

Although, some of the best times on this board were back in the good old days, before any of you hangers on arrived on the scene (that's an old guy joke), when there was a smaller community of die-hards that suffered along with the team. The good old days of Transplant, Johnny Flame, Displaced Flames Fan, and so on, who moved over to FOI from SLAM.CA. When the Flames sucked and the Young Guns were the team in town. It was a much simpler time, and before I had so much ear hair and didn't have to get up three times to pee during the night. Yes, the team sucked, but our small tight community made it fun to support the suckage. We had the Heckle against those mouth breathing bullet tops from Oilfans.ca and many a get together. It was a different time.

Then came 2004, and the bandwagon filled up and changed the site for good. The tent got bigger because the team was winning. And winning changed everything, including the people on this board. So yes, winning does make a difference and not always in good ways, but winning makes sports more fun.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have also gotten older.

I have not.


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[Bingo]

I'm not a favorite player guy at all.

I have players I like ... but more because they help the team win than anything else. I don't get too attached to any one player.

I also don't care who they are playing. I know that's odd. When people get all excited about when Ovechkin is coming in I really don't get it. I just like watching the Flames play and win as much as possible.

The rebuild question ... I like them actually. As long as that's the plan and not the result. As long as I think the person in charge knows what they're doing I'm pretty content to watch things build up in a progression.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Just wait until that changes to:

"when I was your age"

My new old thing ... working with a consulting firm in transitioning careers "don't draw attention to your age on your resume"

gulp

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not a favorite player guy at all.

I have players I like ... but more because they help the team win than anything else. I don't get too attached to any one player.

I also don't care who they are playing. I know that's odd. When people get all excited about when Ovechkin is coming in I really don't get it. I just like watching the Flames play and win as much as possible.

The rebuild question ... I like them actually. As long as that's the plan and not the result. As long as I think the person in charge knows what they're doing I'm pretty content to watch things build up in a progression.

I agree with this - I am all about the team not individual players. When I was young, individual players interested me, but that steadily swayed over to team as I got older.

And I also agree about other teams - couldn't care less. It is all about the Flames, and how they are playing.

[David Struch]

Usually a player that has no position on his teams top two power play units or his teams top two penalty killing units is on his teams 4th line.

To suggest such a player would be on his teams Expansion Draft Protected List would be kinda illogical, wouldn't you say?

Matthew Tkachuk
Mikael Backlund
Elias Lindholm
Dillon Dubé
Andrew Mangiapane
Sean Monahan
Johnny Gaudreau

Geoff Ward can't say enough about the swagger of Mikael Backlund and his Selke level play these past two seasons. I highly doubt he will be left up for grabs but the pro Sam Bennett crowd continue to argue otherwise.

https://twitter.com/NHLFlames/status...06012856373250

[Enoch Root]

Well, hopefully Backlund and Bennett both make good cases for themselves.

I doubt many people are 'pro' one or the other. We all want the best team we can get. Awesome-Backlund helps with that. So would a new and improved Bennett.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well, hopefully Backlund and Bennett both make good cases for themselves.

I doubt many people are 'pro' one or the other. We all want the best team we can get. Awesome-Backlund helps with that. So would a new and improved Bennett.

I love Mikael Backlund, and I also find myself hoping that he is the one left unprotected. The reason brjng that the team will not protect him if a younger, cheaper player has made him expendable, and I am excited about that possibility.

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