[Game Takes] Jets 4 Flames 1

[browntrout]

[QUOTE=Igottago;7724499]Its not 10 games its an ongoing pattern of performance, and a pretty bad start to a shortened season. If the Flames lose tomorrow its definitely all trending the wrong way. We've all seen this show before. People are frustrated that the team didn't get an experienced coach or make a change to core -- both of which were fairly obvious strategies to utilized given the inability to succeed in the playoffs the last few of years. There's more reason to be frustrated right now. What year of the rebuild is this? The 6th?

The team, who is supposed to be in a contending window, hired yet another unproven coach. Most fans didn't want that. It's up to them to prove it was a good move. So far, it isn't proving to be. Let's hope that changes.[/QUOT

Was this team ever considered a true contender? The argument that if they hired a "proven coach" that they would be better holds no merit, do you know how many coaches the Oilers have gone through....have the Jets done anything special with Maurice yet? What about Quenneville in Florida last year...did he get the team deep into the playoffs? Should we fire the GM because he does not have a mcdavid, Matthews, or MacKinnon on the team, is that is fault. There are only so many things the coach and GM can control, the team is what it is, a team that has not drafted 1st overall, a team in a small Canadian market, undesirable for many players. This team won a cup in 89 and so...so close in 2004, an accomplishment and a lot more success in those terms then alot of teams.

[Red]

I believe that people on here were a little upset when TV and press experts were predicting for Toronto to win the division. So at least there were some division champ aspirations.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by browntrout

have the Jets done anything special with Maurice yet?

They made it to the Conference Finals. As big of a ######bag as I think Maurice is I'd take him any day over Ward. Not that I would want him if he ever became available.

[kermitology]

This team is going to be in the same group as Vancouver and Ottawa. The level of effort throughout an entire game just isn't there. Tkachuk in particular is playing like garbage. I'm fed up with these losers.

[ElPresidenti]

Originally Posted by kermitology

This team is going to be in the same group as Vancouver and Ottawa. The level of effort throughout an entire game just isn't there. Tkachuk in particular is playing like garbage. I'm fed up with these losers.

You are dead on when it comes to Tkachuk...its amazing how he gets a free ride when it come to criticism from the media and for that matter, on this forum. Last night was an example of how he is so over paid and is not even close to the type of leader this team needs. 2 of the 4 goals scored by Wpg was a direct result if his poor play The first Appleton goal was Tkachuks man and he just casually gave him a free ride to the net for an easy tap in. While the third goal by Scheifele was set up by a terrible clearing pass by Tkachuk. The other thing people tend of overlook is that his antics create a bit of bulletin board material for other teams to get fired up to play the Flames. Look at the Kings and the Doughty feud. Last year the Flames managed a total of 3 points in 4 games against arguably the worst team in the Pacific....or these Jets have been pretty fired up since last years bubble debacle and have accumulated 7 points in 4 games so far this year. Look at the 2 game set with the Leafs.... you think they don't have future games with the Flames circled on their calendar. A good leader shows his leadership abilities on the ice in terms of a 200 foot game....not creating #### storms every where he goes. Tomorrows battle of AB is going to be a critical measuring stick on just what I'm talking about. Matthew better be ready to play...

[chedder]

Originally Posted by ElPresidenti

A good leader shows his leadership abilities on the ice in terms of a 200 foot game....not creating #### storms every where he goes. Tomorrows battle of AB is going to be a critical measuring stick on just what I'm talking about. Matthew better be ready to play...

Almost as if he's becoming the Jason Kenney of the NHL.

Sorry, bored and I couldn't resist.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by browntrout

Agree...I really was hoping that the GM would go hard after PLD...while keeping Monahan still in the picture...that would have been a great one-two punch down the middle

OK so would you have traded Tkachuk for him?
Because that's the equivalent.

[Igottago]

[QUOTE=browntrout;7724561]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Its not 10 games its an ongoing pattern of performance, and a pretty bad start to a shortened season. If the Flames lose tomorrow its definitely all trending the wrong way. We've all seen this show before. People are frustrated that the team didn't get an experienced coach or make a change to core -- both of which were fairly obvious strategies to utilized given the inability to succeed in the playoffs the last few of years. There's more reason to be frustrated right now. What year of the rebuild is this? The 6th?

The team, who is supposed to be in a contending window, hired yet another unproven coach. Most fans didn't want that. It's up to them to prove it was a good move. So far, it isn't proving to be. Let's hope that changes.[/QUOT

Was this team ever considered a true contender? The argument that if they hired a "proven coach" that they would be better holds no merit, do you know how many coaches the Oilers have gone through....have the Jets done anything special with Maurice yet? What about Quenneville in Florida last year...did he get the team deep into the playoffs? Should we fire the GM because he does not have a mcdavid, Matthews, or MacKinnon on the team, is that is fault. There are only so many things the coach and GM can control, the team is what it is, a team that has not drafted 1st overall, a team in a small Canadian market, undesirable for many players. This team won a cup in 89 and so...so close in 2004, an accomplishment and a lot more success in those terms then alot of teams.

So we rebuilt but haven't built a contender? That is the definition of a failed rebuild. How is the GM not responsible for that? We don't know how this group would do with a proven coach. They've never got to play for one.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Igottago

So we rebuilt but haven't built a contender? That is the definition of a failed rebuild. How is the GM not responsible for that? We don't know how this group would do with a proven coach. They've never got to play for one.

I actually think that most rebuilds do not result in a contender. The GM can't control most things that transpire in professional sports; the one's who do manage to build championship teams benefit from the rarest of combinations of perseverance, experience and luck.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

OK so would you have traded Tkachuk for him?
Because that's the equivalent.

Yes.

EDIT: But I'm in Camp Big Shake-Up

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

OK so would you have traded Tkachuk for him?
Because that's the equivalent.

Tkachuk is more expense than Laine. It will be interesting as with his 6-3 220 frame Dubois is not a Getzlaff crusher type he is mainly speed and passing and smarts.

He compares well to Nathan Mackinnon. Mackinnon broke in as an 18 year old where Dubois went back to Jr

In their 19-21 years:

Mackinnon 218 games 51 goals 143 pts -25

Dubois 234 games 65 goals 158 pts +22

Mackinnon took off when Rattenen became a top line player along with Landeskog.

Tkachuk for Dubois leaves the Flames with Lindholm and Gaudreau and Backlund and Magniapane as top-6 wingers and Monahan as a solid 1B Centre.

Right now are you ready to qualify Tkachuk at 9M? Dubois's 2 years at 5M with 5 M qualifier fixes a lot of cap space problems.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...He compares well to Nathan Mackinnon. Mackinnon broke in as an 18 year old where Dubois went back to Jr Their 19-21 years

Mackinnon 218 games 51 goals 143 pts -25

Dubois 234 games 65 goals 158 pts +22

Mackinnon took off when Rattenen became a top line player along with Landeskog...

Wow.

I get that MacKinnon had a slow start to his NHL career, but leading up to the 2013 NHL entry draft he was being compared to Sidney Crosby. Today he is arguably one of the two or three best hockey players on the planet.

I like Pierre-Luc Dubois, but I don't see anything in his game that makes me think he is a burgeoning, all-world generational talent in the mould of Nathan MacKinnon.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Tkachuk is more expense than Laine. It will be interesting as with his 6-3 220 frame Dubois is not a Getzlaff crusher type he is mainly speed and passing and smarts.

He compares well to Nathan Mackinnon. Mackinnon broke in as an 18 year old where Dubois went back to Jr

In their 19-21 years:

Mackinnon 218 games 51 goals 143 pts -25

Dubois 234 games 65 goals 158 pts +22

Mackinnon took off when Rattenen became a top line player along with Landeskog.

Tkachuk for Dubois leaves the Flames with Lindholm and Gaudreau and Backlund and Magniapane as top-6 wingers and Monahan as a solid 1B Centre.

Right now are you ready to qualify Tkachuk at 9M? Dubois's 2 years at 5M with 5 M qualifier fixes a lot of cap space problems.

Well I've been hesitant to say this because I feel like I already say things that a lot of people hate - but I'm pretty underwelmed by Tkachuk and would not be opposed to trading him to get a #1 centre.

I don't know if that was PLD though.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

OK so would you have traded Tkachuk for him?
Because that's the equivalent.

I would for sure, still leaves Gaudreau and Lindholm on the wing, with Dube and mang to fill out, more balanced line up.

[Enoch Root]

MacKinnon took off when MacKinnon took off - it wasn't because of Rantanen.

And yeah, Dubois is solid, but he is no MacKinnon. Nor was he ever expected to be.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well I've been hesitant to say this because I feel like I already say things that a lot of people hate - but I'm pretty underwelmed by Tkachuk and would not be opposed to trading him to get a #1 centre.

I don't know if that was PLD though.

I wouldn't say that I am underwhelmed by Tkachuk, but I am not as big of a fan as some here. And I agree - I would trade him for a #1 C in a heartbeat. But I also agree that I am not sure that Dubois is that guy.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...Right now are you ready to qualify Tkachuk at 9M? Dubois's 2 years at 5M with 5 M qualifier fixes a lot of cap space problems.

One more thing:

If you truly believe that Dubois is a burgeoning Nathan MacKinnon, then there is no way in hell that the Jets can keep him at his qualifying offer. When MacKinnon becomes a UFA in two years he will become the highest paid player in hockey history.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I actually think that most rebuilds do not result in a contender. The GM can't control most things that transpire in professional sports; the one's who do manage to build championship teams benefit from the rarest of combinations of perseverance, experience and luck.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

IMO contender is a reasonable expectation for a rebuild. Champion is another story.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well I've been hesitant to say this because I feel like I already say things that a lot of people hate - but I'm pretty underwelmed by Tkachuk and would not be opposed to trading him to get a #1 centre.

I don't know if that was PLD though.

I don’t know either but I’m seeing less and less upside with the current roster. When you’re at that point, the risk of “losing” a deal doesn’t seem so bad so long as you’re not giving up long term cap space, premium draft picks or prospects.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Wow.

I get that MacKinnon had a slow start to his NHL career, but leading up to the 2013 NHL entry draft he was being compared to Sidney Crosby. Today he is arguably one of the two or three best hockey players on the planet.

I like Pierre-Luc Dubois, but I don't see anything in his game that makes me think he is a burgeoning, all-world generational talent in the mould of Nathan MacKinnon.

Bennet was supposed to be Gilmour , Dubois is already far closer to Mackinnon than Bennett will ever be to Gilmour,