2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Murph]

Originally Posted by Bonded

That seems like way too much. Monahan, basically 2 1sts, and Kylington?

The offer I’d make would be Monahan and the first. I’d add Kylington if that’s what it took to get it done. But I’m not including Zary.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Its okay, you are a pretty big Flames homer. Not worth arguing with posters like you. The Flames can never do anything wrong for posters like you on this forum. Regardless of being a horrible franchise for decades when it comes to outcomes.

Gaudreau and Monahan haven't done jack #### for about 2 calendar years now. Since the All Star break in 2019. This is not only 1 season. You speak of the 99 points and 82 points.. how about you do a little breakdown of PPG from before and after the All Star Game in 2019?

These are two secondary players that were given a shot to lead a team and have done absolutely nothing with it. Treliving deciding to stick with the same crap core every year shows his incompetence.

Its pathetic, so many posters in love with Treliving when he hasn't produced much results at all besides switching coaches and goalies every year.

As for no available trades, give me a break. Other teams make trades all the time while the Flames are left standing there. Maybe its Treliving who is not very smart for always over valuing his players.

I am eager to see this list of trades that other teams make all the time where the Flames are left standing there? I am going to make some popcorn to give you time to put this list together and then tell me where the Flames fit in those deals.

Your takes are brutal because you are so out of touch with reality and have no idea how challenging these types of moves are to make. We all follow the league pretty closely so I am interested in hearing who all these great players we could have traded Monahan or Gaudreau for the last 2 years.

I don’t deny I could be a homer at times but I also understand that Calgary is far from a desirable market out there for players and know we are on many players no move lists.

You can pull the calendar BS to try and make an argument but end of the day it has been less than 1.5 seasons. You would also be that poster that would be ripping the Flames apart had they moved Monahan or Gaudreau for a lesser return and those players flourished elsewhere. You just want to be a hater.


I don’t care to argue with you either but I am interested to hear about all these moves the Flames missed out on so please start working on that list and I look forward to checking it out later. My guess is though you won’t be able to produce a list or the list you produce will be incredible easy to shred apart using logic and common sense.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Bottom line is. The team over all wasn't deep enough for the playoffs. Monahan and Gaudreau were top 3 in points last playoffs. Monny tied with playoff Bennett. They maybe weren't good enough for a deep run but there's bigger fish to fry then sending your best center out the door. They were exactly where you want a teams players to be, leading the team in scoring.

All I am saying is Monahans overall body of work warrants a leave of criticism until we see how this season pans out.

1 off year should not undermine a really important players body of work.

They led the team. Id argue the rest weren't up to snuff.

I tend to agree with this. End of the day the team wasn’t good enough to get it done in the playoffs and that is the end of the story. We can look at the fact our best player and heartbeat of the team was eliminated and our goalie couldn’t save us when we were 10 seconds away from taking a 3-1 lead on the eventual Western Conference Champions or that same goalie turning into a pumpkin when the team got out to a commanding 3-0 lead in the elimination game (again without our best player).

Good thing Treliving went out and got the best available goaltender on the market. A goalie that was just voted 5th best by GM’s (4th best last year) yet only paying him the 9th highest cap hit among his peers.

I am all for trading Monahan or Gaudreau if the deal makes sense but not doubt it would be selling low right now and that is likely why it hasn’t happened yet

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am eager to see this list of trades that other teams make all the time where the Flames are left standing there? I am going to make some popcorn to give you time to put this list together and then tell me where the Flames fit in those deals.

Your takes are brutal because you are so out of touch with reality and have no idea how challenging these types of moves are to make. We all follow the league pretty closely so I am interested in hearing who all these great players we could have traded Monahan or Gaudreau for the last 2 years.

I don’t deny I could be a homer at times but I also understand that Calgary is far from a desirable market out there for players and know we are on many players no move lists.

You can pull the calendar BS to try and make an argument but end of the day it has been less than 1.5 seasons. You would also be that poster that would be ripping the Flames apart had they moved Monahan or Gaudreau for a lesser return and those players flourished elsewhere. You just want to be a hater.


I don’t care to argue with you either but I am interested to hear about all these moves the Flames missed out on so please start working on that list and I look forward to checking it out later. My guess is though you won’t be able to produce a list or the list you produce will be incredible easy to shred apart using logic and common sense.

You are right, I am not in the Flames management so I don't know what trades are out there. That being said, I do know they have missed out on some big names while staying the course (Stone, Hall, etc.)

However, this may come as a surprise but there have been trades made over the last few seasons and they are not all "desirable" markets.

There are always options. The team hasn't shown much of anything since Treliving took over. 1 playoff series win. That's it. He has kept the same forward group (overrated players like Backlund) and these same players have continuously disappointed.

Let me tell you, maybe you work in a cushy job, but if I went and told my boss that I can't get results at work because we aren't "desirable".. I would be out the door in minutes.

As a GM, its important to use your head. No available trades to compete now? Retool. There is no way you can tell me there wouldn't be some adequate trades available for futures for these guys.

Get rid of Gaudreau, Monahan, Giordano, Backlund.. bring in some prospects and try to get a high pick in this shortened season. Build the team around Tkachuk, Lindholm, Dube, Mangiapane, Andersson, Hanifin, and Valimaki.

Instead, we are going in with the same old core and people are still totally fine with the GM if they crap the bed again this season. When a guy like Treliving is argued as one of the Top GMs this team has ever had with 1 playoff series wins - Maybe its time Flames fans raise their expectations.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by keenan87

You are right, I am not in the Flames management so I don't know what trades are out there. That being said, I do know they have missed out on some big names while staying the course (Stone, Hall, etc.)

However, this may come as a surprise but there have been trades made over the last few seasons and they are not all "desirable" markets.

.

So complaining for a couple years because the guys you want traded, but can't propose one trade that is rumoured or would work and you are calling out other guys? Good to know you don't have an answer to the question.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Its okay, you are a pretty big Flames homer. Not worth arguing with posters like you. The Flames can never do anything wrong for posters like you on this forum. Regardless of being a horrible franchise for decades when it comes to outcomes.

Gaudreau and Monahan haven't done jack #### for about 2 calendar years now. Since the All Star break in 2019. This is not only 1 season. You speak of the 99 points and 82 points.. how about you do a little breakdown of PPG from before and after the All Star Game in 2019?

These are two secondary players that were given a shot to lead a team and have done absolutely nothing with it. Treliving deciding to stick with the same crap core every year shows his incompetence.

Its pathetic, so many posters in love with Treliving when he hasn't produced much results at all besides switching coaches and goalies every year.

As for no available trades, give me a break. Other teams make trades all the time while the Flames are left standing there. Maybe its Treliving who is not very smart for always over valuing his players.

Are Lindholm, Tkachuk, Gio, Rasmus all part of this “crap core” you speak of as well?

[Vinny01]

Flames could have traded for Stone but anyone that is remotely plugged into the team knew they would not have been able to keep him. Give up Valimaki and Pelletier for 20 games of Stone sure sounds like smart management to me.

Do a little bit of homework instead of sitting their throwing stones.

For instance the summer of 2018 it was clear as day to me that the Flames were going to massively shake their team up. They have ample cap flexibility and a player in Hamilton who was clearly on his way out. Luckily Hamilton was coming off a very successful season so he had considerable value. They also had the money to go get Ryan and Neal (obviously that didn’t work out).

The summer of 2019 it was again painfully obvious the Flames were going to be challenged in making improvements. They had a Tkachuk extension looming over the team in addition to several other key RFA’s so they were going to be challenged to make any major moves. They had a great trade done with the Leafs for Kadri but then he decided that Calgary was one of the 10 places he didn’t want to play.

This year the team had flexibility again and made a strong move to get the best goalie on the market in addition to some solid depth signings. I didn’t like the Tanev move however and like you I was hoping for a blockbuster trade that didn’t happen. End of the day if the Flames traded Monahan for Josh Andersen and Korpisalo I would have likely joined you with the pitchforks for Treliving. Luckily he didn’t make a stupid trade like that for the sake of shaking the team up.

Clearly Kennan87 is not a season ticket holder as you just suggest blowing up a team that is still young because of a couple playoff disappointments. This team years it down prematurely and sucks for a year do you want to buy all my tickets at full price for the next 2-3 seasons?

Treliving took over the team in the early stages of a rebuild and has guided them to the playoffs in 4 of 6 seasons. They got their first series victory in 11 years and had their best regular season in 30 years. They have developed more prospects than the last several GM’s and have a pretty clean cap sheet.

If your expectation is to win the cup within 5 years then it just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Treliving has yet to make a disastrous trade for the organization and has guided them to the playoffs in close security years for the first time in a decade and they are favored to finish 1st or 2nd this year.

Last point is if you think blowing this team up is going to convince Tkachuk to sign here long term you are out to lunch. Just an angry fan with no grasp on reality.

[Nelson]

https://twitter.com/hockeyhoundshow/...977908737?s=21

According to The Fourth Period, the Flames have expressed interest in PLD. I don’t know if someone’s already posted that or that’s just obvious, but I thought I’d post this for what it’s worth.

Here’s the relevant Fourth Period article itself.

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/jan-...-eyeing-dubois

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

It literally doesn't matter at all if Calgary is on his list of preferred places to go because he doesn't have that luxury to choose. What are you even going on about? Is there any rumours at all that Dubois and Torts don't get along? or are you just projecting your flawed perception of Torts onto him?

All his questions were fair. Why bring in a guy that is unhappy if he will remain unhappy here. Also, not getting along with Torts would not be a unique thing.

[Heavy Jack]

Hanifin, Bennett, 1st, 3rd For PLD

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Monahan - PLD - Mangiapane
Lucic - Backlund - Dube
Simon - Ryan - Leivo
Nordstrom

Giordano - Tanev
Valimaki - Andersson
Kylington - Nesterov
Mackey

Markstrom
Rittich

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by keenan87

In my opinion, if the Flames don't make the playoffs or their top players continue to embarrass themselves if they do make it.. Treliving should pack his bags.

He sat around and did nothing to address the core forward group after 2 straight seasons of the top players doing crap all (its not like these players were doing much better before the past 2 seasons either).

He has stuck with his guys. If Gaudreau and Monahan suck again and they are out in the first round, Treliving should be fired immediately.

You make some good points; Tre is a loyal guy! I do think Tre's approach is trying to blend Johnny and Monahan into team instead of counting on them to be go to guys. This partially why we don't see core pieces being moved and also Tre being in favor of more continuity. I do agree, I think Tre's patience drives some of us crazy! I wouldn't be surprised if the train comes off the rails we would see some changes. Even with some good players out there, I don't Tre will make more moves with core pieces. My guess he might try trading other pieces.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Bottom line is. The team over all wasn't deep enough for the playoffs. Monahan and Gaudreau were top 3 in points last playoffs. Monny tied with playoff Bennett. They maybe weren't good enough for a deep run but there's bigger fish to fry then sending your best center out the door. They were exactly where you want a teams leading players to be, leading the team in scoring.

All I am saying is Monahans overall body of work warrants a leave of criticism until we see how this season pans out.

They led the team. Id argue the rest weren't up to snuff.

I think the issue is that both Monahan and Gaudreau are not great two-way players and soft. Monahan has gotten a bit meaner but Gaudreau has shied away from physical play and it makes it tough for them to be effective.

Did you watch the top line in the last two playoffs and actually believe they could drive the team deep? I sure did not basis watching.

I think Monahan gets too much flack and the third line center meme is really strong some days but he is not a physical two-way center and unless he starts carrying the puck in effectively to give Gaudreau some room I think they suffer the same fate every playoff run unless the Flames can get another center to allow Monahan and Gaudreau to play against weaker lines.

Maybe Lindholm can be that guy but I am not that convinced he is actually a center in the NHL. Could be wrong there but we will see.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Hanifin, Bennett, 1st, 3rd For PLD

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Monahan - PLD - Mangiapane
Lucic - Backlund - Dube
Simon - Ryan - Leivo
Nordstrom

Giordano - Tanev
Valimaki - Andersson
Kylington - Nesterov
Mackey

Markstrom
Rittich

If BT pulled that off I would tattoo BT IS KING across my forehead. Not happening.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

So complaining for a couple years because the guys you want traded, but can't propose one trade that is rumoured or would work and you are calling out other guys? Good to know you don't have an answer to the question.

He did give you names. Like Hall and Stone, theres others like Evander Kane, Josh Anderson, Fredrik Andersson etc plus im sure theres other we haven't heard or will not hear. The exact details, how would he know that?

It's pretty clear Treiliving best moves are where he trades away picks, they're unknowns. Involving his better players, he's just too hesitant or overvalues his guys.

The fanbase for the most part is well-conditioned to just being average. One playoff round win in his tenure, revolving coaching door, new goalies basically every year, a core thats middle of the road at best and yet questioning the GM is not to be done.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The conversation was Dubois, and I would bet that there is definitely interest in that. If you think you can improve your team, you do it. Period.

Adding a high quality player like Dubois, if you can afford the cost, is something you jump on when the opportunity presents itself.

For sure. I just think it’s far more likely to happen in the offseason at this point.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by jonesy

All his questions were fair. Why bring in a guy that is unhappy if he will remain unhappy here. Also, not getting along with Torts would not be a unique thing.

Theres a difference between not wanting to get traded to Calgary in the first place and definitely being unhappy there if he does. Calgary is a nice city, he is Canadian and would it really be a worse place to live than Columbus? if he gave a list, sure Calgary might be on it but being traded to a team where the expectations upon your arrival are to be contenders can go a long way to making someone want to stay.

Also Torts has significantly changed his approach over the past years and is no longer the hard ass that saw him get fired from multiple teams after just a couple seasons behind the bench. He's still outspoken and fiery but he's also become a little softer and more of a player-friendly coach so just assuming that Dubois wants out because of Torts is inflammatory if there is nothing to back it up, which is why I asked if there was.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

He did give you names. Like Hall and Stone, theres others like Evander Kane, Josh Anderson, Fredrik Andersson etc plus im sure theres other we haven't heard or will not hear. The exact details, how would he know that?

It's pretty clear Treiliving best moves are where he trades away picks, they're unknowns. Involving his better players, he's just too hesitant or overvalues his guys.

The fanbase for the most part is well-conditioned to just being average. One playoff round win in his tenure, revolving coaching door, new goalies basically every year, a core thats middle of the road at best and yet questioning the GM is not to be done.

I can give you names also, maybe Crosby and Kucherov. Are they real options, doubtfully and what would I have to trade for them. Keenan97 has been bitching about the Flames doing nothing because his whipping boys, Monahan and Gaudreau haven't been traded for who he wants. There has not been one real proposal for either guy.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

He did give you names. Like Hall and Stone, theres others like Evander Kane, Josh Anderson, Fredrik Andersson etc plus im sure theres other we haven't heard or will not hear. The exact details, how would he know that?

It's pretty clear Treiliving best moves are where he trades away picks, they're unknowns. Involving his better players, he's just too hesitant or overvalues his guys.

The fanbase for the most part is well-conditioned to just being average. One playoff round win in his tenure, revolving coaching door, new goalies basically every year, a core thats middle of the road at best and yet questioning the GM is not to be done.

Flames were trying to trade for Andersen (who was traded for picks) but the Ducks didn’t want to trade him in the division

They weren’t going to outbid the Coyotes in terms of prospects for Hall but apparently offered Hanifin and Bennett for Hall and Vatanen if Hall signed. Glad that fell through as Hall would have cost a lot more last December pre-pandemic

Do you want Josh Andersen and his 7 year deal on the table? Reason the Habs signed that deal was because Andersen said he was signing for 1 year (UFA) or 7 years and wasn’t willing to negotiate anything in between.

Flames would not have been able to keep Stone at the 9.5M cap hit he got from Vegas and it would have cost at least Valimaki and Pelletier.

The Flames didn’t have the picks to make the Kane trade due to the Hamonic deal.

These are weak examples that can be easily torn apart. I also guarantee if some of those moves did go down and Stone walked, Hall walked, Kane walked we would be chastising Treliving for wasting assets on rentals when this team wasn’t ready to compete.

Lots of posters were up in arms over a 3rd round pick for Gustafson last year after he walked this offseason

[Enoch Root]

Of all the recurring bad arguments on here, "they didn't trade for <insert player>, therefore they are content to stand pat with the current core", is one of the lamest.

[SuperMatt18]

Personally I’m so happy they didn’t trade for Anderson. That was an overpay on both contract and trade return.

The biggest mistake was the Neal contract, and that’s even before you consider his on ice return. Flames needed to understand that the cap space they had there was an asset.

They could have kept that space going into the season to leverage in trades or other moves. One of the big reasons it’s been hard for Treliving to make a trade is because we are right at the cap, tough to make a move with no flexibility on money.

Had Neal not signed here I think Stone could have ended up here. Flames would have had the space to trade for him without Ottawa needing to take cap back, and Flames likely could have fit him in that offseason then if they wanted to re-sign him.

Obviously Neal didn’t work out in retrospect but I also didn’t using all our cap space on him at the time when it looked like two more impactful players (Stone/Hall) could potentially be available in the upcoming offseasons.