Ocean Wiesblatt discussion

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Yeah, the whole group are pieces of crap for getting together like they did.

Did they "get together" though? It was a nice winter day and people decided to go....gasp....skating.

Its a community rink, supposedly open to anyone from that community. Who decides which 10 people are allowed? If it gets to 11 people, do the police still respond?

This whole thing can be blamed on city, provincial and federal officials for the convoluted and asinine arbitrary numbers associated with the different rules/bylaws they have come out with.

The guy in the video botched his response, no question, but all this stuff happening could so easily be avoided with clear common sense regulations.

[Bingo]

^not sure I agree with that.

They have to have a posted rule of some kind or they don't have the right to ask people to disperse.

Keeping out door rinks open is a way to allow people an activity, exercise and mental health. It would be easier on by law officers to just say it's not allowed.

If people just shut it down when they were asked none of this happens.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

^not sure I agree with that.

They have to have a posted rule of some kind or they don't have the right to ask people to disperse.

Keeping out door rinks open is a way to allow people an activity, exercise and mental health. It would be easier on by law officers to just say it's not allowed.

If people just shut it down when they were asked none of this happens.

So i will ask again....who gets to skate and who doesn't? Do police respond at 11 skaters but not 10?

Seems to me, and i may be wrong, everyone at the rink that day was doing nothing more than getting their exercise and mental health fixes in....as you point out is the whole idea.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Did they "get together" though? It was a nice winter day and people decided to go....gasp....skating.

Its a community rink, supposedly open to anyone from that community. Who decides which 10 people are allowed? If it gets to 11 people, do the police still respond?

This whole thing can be blamed on city, provincial and federal officials for the convoluted and asinine arbitrary numbers associated with the different rules/bylaws they have come out with.

The guy in the video botched his response, no question, but all this stuff happening could so easily be avoided with clear common sense regulations.

Such as?

Every province has been trying to keep businesses, and gathering for physical activity, open in some capacity while managing hospital capacity. What exactly was arbitrary and asinine to you?

Who decides? You do. When you go to the rink and it’s packed remember that we are in the closing stages of a pandemic and suck it up and wait. Or come back later.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So i will ask again....who gets to skate and who doesn't? Do police respond at 11 skaters but not 10?

Seems to me, and i may be wrong, everyone at the rink that day was doing nothing more than getting their exercise and mental health fixes in....as you point out is the whole idea.

Well bylaw responded first and explained the rules and asked everyone to follow them, people didn’t, so the police were called to help and did the same, and basically everyone did except for Ocean. And then he followed that up by refusing to give him name and resisting arrest.

People act like the cops just suddenly rolled up and started giving everyone who didn’t comply a chop to the back of the legs. “WhAt aRe ThE rUlEs tHoUgH!????” doesn’t hold much water when bylaw came in to educate, then the police came in to educate, and the only person at risk of a ticket was one guy out of the 40 who couldn’t be an adult.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Such as?

Every province has been trying to keep businesses, and gathering for physical activity, open in some capacity while managing hospital capacity. What exactly was arbitrary and asinine to you?

Who decides? You do. When you go to the rink and it’s packed remember that we are in the closing stages of a pandemic and suck it up and wait. Or come back later.

Now do Walmart, Costco, BLM rallies, Defund the Police Rallies, etc. 20, or more, people skating at an outdoor rink is far from the biggest problems. And the way the cops handled this is the same way they handle everything, like the useless bullies they are because of a badge.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Such as?

Every province has been trying to keep businesses, and gathering for physical activity, open in some capacity while managing hospital capacity. What exactly was arbitrary and asinine to you?

Who decides? You do. When you go to the rink and it’s packed remember that we are in the closing stages of a pandemic and suck it up and wait. Or come back later.

Listen i get the whole keeping everyone safe thing. Believe me. Im on an unpaid LOA because of it.

But how did we send 100' of thousands of kids and teenagers into schools for 4 months to mingle about with each other in confined paces and exposing not only themselves but all the employees there to a huge risk (who all then went home to spouses/children/room mates)...but somehow skating with 40 adults outdoors is a far more egregious gathering.

Its a convoluted and arbitrary clusterfata of piece meal laws and rules. Hell...look at the pictures coming out of malls the last couple days.

Mixed messaging all over the place and little surprise people are having issues with it all.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Did they "get together" though? It was a nice winter day and people decided to go....gasp....skating.

Its a community rink, supposedly open to anyone from that community. Who decides which 10 people are allowed? If it gets to 11 people, do the police still respond?

This whole thing can be blamed on city, provincial and federal officials for the convoluted and asinine arbitrary numbers associated with the different rules/bylaws they have come out with.

The guy in the video botched his response, no question, but all this stuff happening could so easily be avoided with clear common sense regulations.

The article said 40 people were playing hockey together.
I got the impression that 40 people wouldn't randomly have shown up with their hockey stuff and decided to play together.

Even if by some odd chance it was for the most part random, they should have all known they shouldn't all be there together.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So i will ask again....who gets to skate and who doesn't? Do police respond at 11 skaters but not 10?

Seems to me, and i may be wrong, everyone at the rink that day was doing nothing more than getting their exercise and mental health fixes in....as you point out is the whole idea.

It’s a big assumption to assume forty people were at the ODR was a coincidence and they were all unrelated just looking to get a skate in

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Cappy

It’s a big assumption to assume forty people were at the ODR was a coincidence and they were all unrelated just looking to get a skate in

Look at the video that Lucic put on his Instagram where he took his kids to the rink and played some pickup hockey, way more than 20 people on the rink. So did someone organize that or is it just a nice day and a bunch of people show up at the rink. Where were the cops to arrest everyone that day?

[hixxes]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So i will ask again....who gets to skate and who doesn't? Do police respond at 11 skaters but not 10?

Seems to me, and i may be wrong, everyone at the rink that day was doing nothing more than getting their exercise and mental health fixes in....as you point out is the whole idea.

Have you read the account of what happened? It wasn't a bunch of random people out trying to get a little exercise. There were upwards of 40 people on the ice, of which a large majority were engaged in a game.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

Im not a facebook guy, but who starts a statement on their own personal facebook page with a, "Hey my name is x"?

When they're drafting up an attention seeking post that they expect to go viral beyond their followers.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So i will ask again....who gets to skate and who doesn't? Do police respond at 11 skaters but not 10?

Seems to me, and i may be wrong, everyone at the rink that day was doing nothing more than getting their exercise and mental health fixes in....as you point out is the whole idea.

Do you have an alternate plan?

I provided one ... ban them period, though I don't like it as an option.

You have to have a number to ensure people are aware that they're over the line. Might be as simple as asking for volunteers? I honestly don't know.

I just don't see it as the city having much choice.

You need to have a guideline or you can't enforce it.
Whether the number is 10, 15 or 20 it will come down to one person being over at some point.

[troutman]

This was discussed at length in the Covid forum.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

The article said 40 people were playing hockey together.
I got the impression that 40 people wouldn't randomly have shown up with their hockey stuff and decided to play together.

Even if by some odd chance it was for the most part random, they should have all known they shouldn't all be there together.

That's, literally, the purpose of community rinks.

I guess they could have all known each other and planned it, but very unlikely.

Much more probable it was a great day to head to the rink...and thats what everyone did.

Not that it matters because again...10 is safe but 11 is not. Thats kind of my point. Arbitrary numbers, mixed messages and no one on hand to decide who can skate and who cant.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Listen i get the whole keeping everyone safe thing. Believe me. Im on an unpaid LOA because of it.

But how did we send 100' of thousands of kids and teenagers into schools for 4 months to mingle about with each other in confined paces and exposing not only themselves but all the employees there to a huge risk (who all then went home to spouses/children/room mates)...but somehow skating with 40 adults outdoors is a far more egregious gathering.

Its a convoluted and arbitrary clusterfata of piece meal laws and rules. Hell...look at the pictures coming out of malls the last couple days.

Mixed messaging all over the place and little surprise people are having issues with it all.

My wife is a teacher, so I get that argument.

But I also get how an economic engine works, and that you can't necessarily cut the things out that you want to.

If you close schools you send 1000's of parents home to look after them, they potentially lose their jobs, and become welfare dependent and your economy takes a hit.

Money may be evil, but all of these decisions have to be weighed in order to come up with measures to limit contact and exposure.

They are well aware that an out door rink isn't as risky as a school in proximity, but they don't have that option.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That's, literally, the purpose of community rinks.

I guess they could have all known each other and planned it, but very unlikely.

Much more probable it was a great day to head to the rink...and thats what everyone did.

Not that it matters because again...10 is safe but 11 is not. Thats kind of my point. Arbitrary numbers, mixed messages and no one on hand to decide who can skate and who cant.

So what is your solution then?

I see it as set a number which gives you the teeth to ask for people to disperse or just close them completely.

Do you have an alternate?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That's, literally, the purpose of community rinks.

I guess they could have all known each other and planned it, but very unlikely.

Much more probable it was a great day to head to the rink...and thats what everyone did.

Not that it matters because again...10 is safe but 11 is not. Thats kind of my point. Arbitrary numbers, mixed messages and no one on hand to decide who can skate and who cant.

You keep hammering why 10 but not 11!!?? That's not the point, the point is they decided on a number and that was it. That's like saying 150 people are allowed in Walmart, so why not 151. Why not 152, why not 153, why not 154? Because it has to be a damn number!

And the old debate of why this and why not for bannings and restrictions is about keeping our economy afloat, while still trying to restrict gatherings as much as possible.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Do you have an alternate plan?

I provided one ... ban them period, though I don't like it as an option.

I think its silly to outright ban outdoor activities at all.

You have to have a number to ensure people are aware that they're over the line. Might be as simple as asking for volunteers? I honestly don't know.

Common sense tells me that its more than 10. I mean in less than a month we will be watching 15 guys at a time on Saddledome indoor ice. But no, i dont have a specific number. It would also depend on the size of the area....boarded rinks are pretty standard but there are all kinds of ponds of various sizes that could handle way more.

But yeah i suppose community volunteers being there and limiting everyone to a set time allowed on the ice so everyone can get their time in is one way....though it doesnt seem feasible to me.

I just don't see it as the city having much choice.

You need to have a guideline or you can't enforce it.
Whether the number is 10, 15 or 20 it will come down to one person being over at some point.

I guess. Im just astounded at how many think this is so cut and dried and have zero questions as to how and why that number is arrived at and how it is enforced.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think its silly to outright ban outdoor activities at all.




Common sense tells me that its more than 10. I mean in less than a month we will be watching 15 guys at a time on Saddledome indoor ice. But no, i dont have a specific number. It would also depend on the size of the area....boarded rinks are pretty standard but there are all kinds of ponds of various sizes that could handle way more.

But yeah i suppose community volunteers being there and limiting everyone to a set time allowed on the ice so everyone can get their time in is one way....though it doesnt seem feasible to me.



I guess. Im just astounded at how many think this is so cut and dried and have zero questions as to how and why that number is arrived at and how it is enforced.

The Alberta government has applied some science to it .

https://www.alberta.ca/assets/docume...recreation.pdf

appendix "A" takes you through the math of it.