2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Jeff Lebowski]

They way I look at it is which skillsets does the team have and how to best deploy them? I'm rehashing some things from my past posts but putting all into one post here.


I understand the frustration with not advancing far in past 2 playoffs with expectations high. What I keep seeing is people saying both Monahan and Gaudreau (but really all the top guys) haven't produced. These 2 guys are singled out.


However I see people adhering to 'if Monahan is your 1C you won't go far' Gaudreau is the best offensive player but he carry the team.


I can understand this too. Iginla was the best player, scored the most points and in the playoffs the team literally climbed on his back and he literally fought his way through the competition (2004 run). Its a very familiar archetype. But one I think should be re-examined to the modern game where you just want to get the absolute most out of your talent.


In the playoffs, I saw Gaudreau immediately get 4 guys closing hard on him the instant he would gain possession. Fans wanted him to take the hits to fight through it - I guess the thinking is if he gets 90-100 pts he must have gained muscle and his body transformed. He should hit the weights and get legs like St. Louis (but when Roger Millions suggested the same thing to Cammy, the reply was Gaudreau is not built like that and his elusiveness was a great asset and really taking hits would just end up injuring him. as Burke said, "he's not small, he's tiny."


When the space is limited and teams are closing with that many guys (4) on Gaudreau the plays don't get made, the confidence goes down and it has downstream effects like poor performance on the PP. Things just don't click.



'Monahan isn't like Mackinnon. Monahan gets garbage goals and doesn't skate like Mackinnon ' are common refrains from fans. They say he's one dimensional and largely invisible - I think he's made good improvements in defence and skating but compared to Mackinnon it's difficult to see.


I think the things that solve these issues (if trades are too lopsided or hard to work because of cap issues) is to look at how to deploy your skillsets better to overcome the areas (which every player has) that aren't as strong.


Fundamentally I think CGY has to remove ego and put players where they are going to succeed. This entails changing the centre position. In today's game you need centres who can cover the ice - skating speed and mobility, distribute the puck, break down defences and just control and compete hard in the rink within the rink (centre lane).


The lines should be:
Tkachuk - Backlund - Gaudreau
Mangiapane - Lindholm - Monahan
Lucic - Bennett - Dube
new players (I can't even remember)


Backlund and Tkachuk are going to take the pressure off Gaudreau. They are going to take the puck from the defensive zone through the neutral zone and give it to Gaudreau once it's in the offensive zone where he can maximize his shiftiness, vision, passing and smarts.


Backlund is at the top of his powers, he's a leader and he's really smart and adept at skating those routes that start deep in his end and he gets to the offensive zone.


Tkachuk on the boards removes Gaudreau from having to be the guy on the wall that has to get the puck out when the puck is rimmed to him in the d zone. When I watch, I see CGY move it up the left side much more than up the right side:
Gio, Hanifin, Valimaki are going to start behind their net and go up their strong side or give it to the centre: Backlund.


Lindholm in the middle gives you more mobility, more explosive skating in the middle. Monahan is not slow but his first step doesn't back people off - defensively this mobility is needed.
Lindholm is great with his stick defensively and strips guys - I want him, Backlund and Bennett working the middle of the ice especially in those 3 on 3 game within a game battles both offensively (centre plus his wingers) and defensively (centre plus his defencemen).


People thought about Gaudreau for Konecny as a trade. Mangiapane reminds of a poor man's Konecny.
Putting Mangiapane on that line gives it something they were lacking. Monahan on the RW will still use his skillset for production (I could see loads of one timer goals) plus he can still take his strong side draws. I also want Monahan to use his frame better - to engage more. If he gets in on the forecheck with the same effort Lucic uses, he's going to be able to help the team more. His passes can be small ones on half the ice. *Lucic needs to fight his buddies on other teams too - his paycheque entails fighting and intimidation as well. He can't say they wouldn't fight me - he has to involve himself. He's a Flame now. I liked him all year except when he played against his friends. That has to change.


Monahan with Gaudreau are amazing (especially off the rush) but they sometimes fall into patterns: Gaudreau carries the puck and drives the line. Monahan looks for quiet ice. Instead of getting rid of them just move them around.



The bottom line is evaluating the talent on your team but utilizing it better : put people in situations to succeed and not fall into these tropes on what best players should do, what roles they have to fulfill to fit some archetype. Maximize and optimize your team's strengths. Again not saying don't tweak things but don't feel like you have to move people for the sake of change only. Make deals that make you better and if the market is going against you - find a way to use what you have more effectively until the market shifts to your favour.


I love the team - I think it's really talented and versatile. Value your skillsets appropriately and don't fall into these problematic mental models.

[Hells Bells]

If the plan was to play Lindholm at C, I'd like them to give Leivo a look with Gaudreau/Monahan. I think his skillset might play well on that line, and it would make the middle 6 look great too.

Gaudreau/Monahan/Leivo
Tkachuk/Lindholm/Mangiapane
Bennett/Backlund/Dube
Lucic/Ryan/Simon/Nordstrom

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Hells Bells

If the plan was to play Lindholm at C, I'd like them to give Leivo a look with Gaudreau/Monahan. I think his skillset might play well on that line, and it would make the middle 6 look great too.

Gaudreau/Monahan/Leivo
Tkachuk/Lindholm/Mangiapane
Bennett/Backlund/Dube
Lucic/Ryan/Simon/Nordstrom

This is one of the scenarios I would be fine with Bennett back at wing.

As long as he is top 9 I am happy.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

This is one of the scenarios I would be fine with Bennett back at wing.

As long as he is top 9 I am happy.

Nope, Bennett Center or bust. It's time we see what he can do and give him the chance to take the ball and run with it.

Or else I use him as trade bait.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Nope, Bennett Center or bust. It's time we see what he can do and give him the chance to take the ball and run with it.

Or else I use him as trade bait.

Ward has already stated Bennett will play centre this year at least to start so I think you will get your wish.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Nope, Bennett Center or bust. It's time we see what he can do and give him the chance to take the ball and run with it.

Or else I use him as trade bait.

Yup, I would rather move Monahan to the wing and try this:

Tkachuk/Bennett-Lindholm/Gaudreau
Monahan/Bennett-Lindholm/Mangiapane
Lucic-Leivo/Backlund/Dube
Leivo-Lucic/Ryan/Nordstrom

Just my opinion:

1)-Monahan plays more like a sniping winger
2)-Bennett plays center better than wing, time to give him a real good look there
3)-Gaudreau needs to play off wing(I've harped on this for years)
4)-Lindholm is far better suited as a top 6 center
5)-Backlund is not a top 6 center on any good team but is an excellent 3rd line center on most top teams
6)-Tkachuk needs to play with Gaudreau period.

[MrMike]

Leivo has a shot that we haven't seen in a long time.

There is a reason he has the same offer but chose here. Van were not giving thier bottom 6 chances.

Watch AC's new video of Lindholm part 2 and look at what he does as a defensive winger.

I would sell high on Monahan as a center (only because if we move him to wing and he doesn't work out his value nose dives) and make Backlund/Lindholm/Bennett fight for the first line center.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Leivo has a shot that we haven't seen in a long time.

There is a reason he has the same offer but chose here. Van were not giving thier bottom 6 chances.

Watch AC's new video of Lindholm part 2 and look at what he does as a defensive winger.

I would sell high on Monahan as a center (only because if we move him to wing and he doesn't work out his value nose dives) and make Backlund/Lindholm/Bennett fight for the first line center.

Agree on Monahan. Moving him to the wing doesn't make sense. If your doing that, better to trade him. That said, I think a trade at this point is unlikely.

Personally I would put Monahan and Gaudreau on an offensively focused line with lots of O zone starts. Stop playing them against the other teams top lines. Give them the underbelly instead.

Lines revolving around Tkachuk, Backlund, and Lindholm can take the tough starts and finish above water.

I will never understand why Ward started our top line primarily in the defensive zone during the playoffs. Between that and the Talbot pull I really hope he learned something and is ready to do better.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Agree on Monahan. Moving him to the wing doesn't make sense. If your doing that, better to trade him. That said, I think a trade at this point is unlikely.

Personally I would put Monahan and Gaudreau on an offensively focused line with lots of O zone starts. Stop playing them against the other teams top lines. Give them the underbelly instead.

Lines revolving around Tkachuk, Backlund, and Lindholm can take the tough starts and finish above water.

I will never understand why Ward started our top line primarily in the defensive zone during the playoffs. Between that and the Talbot pull I really hope he learned something and is ready to do better.

Someone mentioned something a while back that I had never thought of before but made sense. Starting in the defensive end, while risky if you lose the draw, can actually be better for an offensive line because then it gives them a chance to create off the rush, which they are good at, and control the puck in the offensive zone. And monahan is pretty good at draws so it's not the worst idea but again, pretty risky if they lose the draw and are up against the other team's top players.

but good matchups starting in the defensive end could potentially be beneficial

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

Someone mentioned something a while back that I had never thought of before but made sense. Starting in the defensive end, while risky if you lose the draw, can actually be better for an offensive line because then it gives them a chance to create off the rush, which they are good at, and control the puck in the offensive zone. And monahan is pretty good at draws so it's not the worst idea but again, pretty risky if they lose the draw and are up against the other team's top players.

but good matchups starting in the defensive end could potentially be beneficial

It’s all about percentages.

Starting a poor defensive line in the defensive zone will certainly pay off at times, but it will be less than 50%.


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[TOfan]

I don’t see Ward moving Monahan to the wing. Monahan has, what, 450-500 games under his belt as a C? That’s probably more than Lindholm and Bennett combined times two. Unless there is a move to be made, I think Bennett’s back on the wing despite what Ward has said.

Mangiapane Lindhom Tkachuk
Gaudreau Monahan Lievo
Bennett Backlund Dube
Lucic Ryan Simon/Nordstrom

[Bingo]

At least they have some options now, that's the biggest thing.

Given the way other teams have schemed and shut down Monahan/Gaudreau in playoff series, I think its imperative that they come up with two or even three sets of four lines and use them all through the season.

I know players can hate the blender, but I think the Flames need`to have multiple looks and the ability to change to another comfortable "look" without much difficulty.

Lindholm, Monahan, Bennett ... can all swing from wing to center.
Tkachuk and Mangiapane can play both sides.

They need to get less predictable.

[Monahammer]

The longer that Barzal remains unsigned, the more i hope in vain that something really could happen there.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

At least they have some options now, that's the biggest thing.

Given the way other teams have schemed and shut down Monahan/Gaudreau in playoff series, I think its imperative that they come up with two or even three sets of four lines and use them all through the season.

I know players can hate the blender, but I think the Flames need`to have multiple looks and the ability to change to another comfortable "look" without much difficulty.

Lindholm, Monahan, Bennett ... can all swing from wing to center.
Tkachuk and Mangiapane can play both sides.

They need to get less predictable.

I'm trying to remember but I think this is what Detroit did with Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

They had struggled in the playoffs their first couple seasons as "The Guys" in Detroit. Then the following season you started to see Babcock using them in different ways (on the same line, on separate lines, up and down the lineup), and then it started to work for them.

I do agree that the Flames in the playoffs can be too predictable and too slow to react to the other teams gameplan, and it hurts our top guys the most.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Agree on Monahan. Moving him to the wing doesn't make sense. If your doing that, better to trade him. That said, I think a trade at this point is unlikely.

Personally I would put Monahan and Gaudreau on an offensively focused line with lots of O zone starts. Stop playing them against the other teams top lines. Give them the underbelly instead.

Lines revolving around Tkachuk, Backlund, and Lindholm can take the tough starts and finish above water.

I will never understand why Ward started our top line primarily in the defensive zone during the playoffs. Between that and the Talbot pull I really hope he learned something and is ready to do better.

I have been saying this for awhile, I believe if you can put Gaudreau against other teams lesser lines your going to gain an advantage. Monahan and Gaudreau are offensive players who don't give you the intensity, drive and physicality that might you need against the oppositions top line. Teams know if they play a physical game against Gaudreau, he is probably going to shy away; Especially if he is lacking the speed and agility he has displayed in the past. We need a top line with an identity, one that drives the play, drives the team, and gives a consistent effort.

Very good offensive players, but I just don't see Gaudreau and Monahan as the top line guys to lead the team.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

The longer that Barzal remains unsigned, the more i hope in vain that something really could happen there.

Love Barzel however here's the problem.

The Isles have 3.9 mil left and the kids scoring and the eyeball test makes him a 6-7 million and if days were better, an 8 million player. Calgary has 1 mil left. No combination of trades will free up enough for Calgary to then sign him.

Put another way Calgary and the Islanders don't have enough cap space combined at 4.9 mill to sign a Barzel. No direct trade combination works for either team. If Calgary say sells say a Hanafin, for just picks to get space, there's still no promise an Islanders trade would still happen.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Love Barzel however here's the problem.

The Isles have 3.9 mil left and the kids scoring and the eyeball test makes him a 6-7 million and if days were better, an 8 million player. Calgary has 1 mil left. No combination of trades will free up enough for Calgary to then sign him.

Put another way Calgary and the Islanders don't have enough cap space combined at 4.9 mill to sign a Barzel. No direct trade combination works for either team. If Calgary say sells say a Hanafin, for just picks to get space, there's still no promise an Islanders trade would still happen.

It would have to be a Gaudreau for Brazal based deal with Barzal signing a new contract with the Flames. I think it’s unlikely to happen.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

It would have to be a Gaudreau for Brazal based deal with Barzal signing a new contract with the Flames. I think it’s unlikely to happen.

With just 3.9 mil left exactly how does NYIS keep Guadreau under the cap.? The math doesn't work...and it has to.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

With just 3.9 mil left exactly how does NYIS keep Guadreau under the cap.? The math doesn't work...and it has to.

Boychuk $6M is going LTIR once the season starts.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Boychuk $6M is going LTIR once the season starts.

Okay that makes more sense. Cap Friendly shows him as LTIR now but still includes him in their total. I guess the Isle could afford more.