When will next season start? Return to Play Negotiations

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gyms are being opened with the science being followed was that anyone who was getting covid at the Gym already had it, recovered and are immune.

Herd immunity on a small part of the herd.

WTF. None of that is true.

[dissentowner]

It would not be a proper thread without ricardodw posting something that makes you wonder just wtf he is smoking today.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It would not be a proper thread without ricardodw posting something that makes you wonder just wtf he is smoking today.

Which is fine when it's just hockey. But the spreading of misinformation with COVID is more problematic in my view.

[sec304]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gyms are being opened with the science being followed was that anyone who was getting covid at the Gym already had it, recovered and are immune.

Herd immunity on a small part of the herd.

Wth? Did Trump tell you this?

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Which is fine when it's just hockey. But the spreading of misinformation with COVID is more problematic in my view.

CP needs a twitter like disclaimer for posts like this...

"Some or all of the content shared in this Tweet/post is disputed and might be misleading...."

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

CP needs a twitter like disclaimer for posts like this...

"Some or all of the content shared in this Tweet/post is disputed and might be misleading...."

If there’s one thing I’ve learned in all my years on CP, it’s that some posters here love it when anyone points out that their posts are misleading or untrue.

Was green text necessary?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gyms are being opened with the science being followed was that anyone who was getting covid at the Gym already had it, recovered and are immune.

Herd immunity on a small part of the herd.

I say this understanding a large amount of his posting history; but this may be the dumbest, most ill-informed thing that Ricardodw has ever posted here.

[iggy_oi]

Back on topic, I’ve been giving this whole situation between the league and PA a lot of thought and the more I think about it the more this all seems like PR theatrics from the league. Clearly the league wants to make the deal better for them and legal or not they are going to be able to do so with or without the consent of the PA, at least in the short term. That probably sounds negative, but if you’re worried about the upcoming season it should come as good news, because it means it’s doubtful the season will be cancelled.

IMO what will happen is that either the parties will agree to some extra concessions to the players in exchange for an upfront increase in deferred salary/escrow caps to give league a higher likelihood of getting the 50/50 split they want, or the league will unilaterally impose the changes they want and the players will have to take them to court where the PA would likely get a favourable ruling but at that point the owners would have already gotten what they wanted upfront and only risk being required to pay it back after the fact.

Not exactly an ideal way to do business, but the league doesn’t have very many other options unless they want to admit they’re bluffing. Cancelling the season isn’t realisticly an option for the league, the potential liability for doing so is too great when they have other options.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Any player that does not have the covid immunity antibody could be declared unable to play.

Sort of a prerequisite taken at the medical check in at the start of training camp.

You get the antibody by getting covid or by a vaccine.

Checking for anti bodies is practically a useless way for checking for immunity. The government uses it because it is a cheaper test. A better way to test if you actually have immunity is to test b and t cells.

[MrMike]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...or-home-games/

Four teams looking at playing outdoor home games

"None of the clubs would comment, but they are Anaheim, Boston, Los Angeles and Pittsburgh. According to multiple sources, it was the Kings who first considered the idea several months ago."

[Toonage]

The other 27 teams would love that too as I believe they would share in the revenue.

Curious if any Canadian teams brave this in the dead of winter

[Lil Pedro]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gyms are being opened with the science being followed was that anyone who was getting covid at the Gym already had it, recovered and are immune.

Herd immunity on a small part of the herd.

Didn't know Scott Atlas posted on CP

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The other 27 teams would love that too as I believe they would share in the revenue.

Curious if any Canadian teams brave this in the dead of winter

It would be great to schedule outdoor games on the weekend...Maybe by April/May they could have limited fan access with the intention to increase towards the playoffs?

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The other 27 teams would love that too as I believe they would share in the revenue.

Curious if any Canadian teams brave this in the dead of winter

I think the players would be against playing in those conditions but I would expect fans to definitely fill up what is allowed. It would be a really neat experience.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

And the agreement is that the league has to pay the players, regardless of whether there is a game played this year their salaries less 20% escrow. Next year the binding contract says they have to pay the players their contract less a 18 or 14% escrow with the escrow sliding down after that.

I suspect that binding contract is almost certainly beyond the understanding of most of the owners no offence to the owners. The one part that I think the players do understand that you cited is that there is a scenario where fixing escrow does not fix the 50/50 problem and the CBA runs out and the players get more than 50 percent of HRR over the term of the CBA. I do not think the players have a problem with that potential scenario and they carefully read the binding July addendum to the CBA to make sure their interests were protected. Unfortunately it appears the owners did not.

Okay. Firstly, the players also need to read the whole agreement . At least the important parts.

Here is a good article that pulls them out, and I have quoted them for you

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/does-...to-its-demands

Article 5 reads in part:

“Each club, and, where appropriate, the league, in the exercise of its functions of management, shall in addition to its other inherent and legal rights to manage its business, including the direction and control of its team, have the right at any time and from time to determine when, where, how and under what circumstances it wishes to operate, suspend, discontinue, sell or move and to determine the manner and the rules by which its team shall play hockey.”

Now, Paragraph 17 of the SPC reads as follows:

“If because of any condition arising from a state of war or other cause beyond the control of the League or of the Club, it shall be deemed advisable by the League or the Club to suspend or cease or reduce operations, then:

(a) in the event of suspension of operations, the Player shall be entitled only to the proportion of Paragraph 1 Salary due at the date of suspension,

(b) in the event of cessation of operations, the Paragraph 1 Salary shall be automatically canceled on the date of cessation, and

(c) in the event of reduction of operations, the Paragraph 1 Salary shall be replaced by that mutually agreed upon between the Club and the Player, or, in the absence of mutual agreement, by that determined by neutral arbitration.”

Now, finally, the memorandum of agreement between the two sides reads as follows:

“In connection with this agreement, (i) for the 2019-20 League Year, the NHL agrees to waive any potential applicability of SPC Paragraph 17 solely on account of the loss of games due to the COVID-19 pandemic on a non-precedential and without prejudice basis for future League Years, (ii) For the 2020-21 League Year, the NHL agrees to waive any potential applicability Page 7 of 71 of Paragraph 17(c) in connection with the COVID-19 pandemic on a non-precedential and without prejudice basis for future League Years, and (iii) such waivers do not affect any other rights or positions of the parties with respect to SPC Paragraph 17.”

So 17(a) and 17(b) are still in play for 2020-21.

Some experts in labor law and sports law seem to agree that it has to do with economic reality more so than labour law

Is the pandemic beyond the league’s control? Yes
Might the league determine it is not advisable to operate? Sure, that is a distinct possibility

Here is the final quote in the article

“The bottom line is they are in it together,” Drew said. “The owners and the players have to make this work on whatever terms will get people through. At the end of the day, the league is going to bleed so much red that they can’t run a season, then they’re going to suspend the season. As much as I value language, it’s only as good as the capacity of the parties to live up to the obligations that they very well may have negotiated in good faith, even if it was only (five) months ago.”

[Strange Brew]

It’s pretty much a business truism that any successful deal needs to benefit both parties. If living up to the MOU puts franchises out of business, what’s the point?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

One question I have is, are the players still allowed to utilize their 5% cap inflator? If so, that could essentially nullify the 6% escrow in the latter half of the deal.

No, the new agreement completely changes the way the cap will be calculated after things return to normal.

Even if they could, using the escalator only increases the cap, it doesn't change the amount of actual money available to the players, so it would effectively increase escrow, not decrease it.

[DoubleK]

It makes more and more sense for the league to cancel the season, wait until the vaccine has been widely distributed and have a reasonable prospect of having fans in the building.

The benevolent NHL owners aren't going to take a bath for the sake of playing hockey.

The PA isn't going to budge because they signed the MOU and that's all that matters as far as they are concerned.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

It makes more and more sense for the league to cancel the season, wait until the vaccine has been widely distributed and have a reasonable prospect of having fans in the building.

The benevolent NHL owners aren't going to take a bath for the sake of playing hockey.

The PA isn't going to budge because they signed the MOU and that's all that matters as far as they are concerned.

The PA will budge if they lose a season of wages, even at a prorated scale.

I don’t see the season getting cancelled.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

The benevolent NHL owners aren't going to take a bath for the sake of playing hockey.

They may take a bath to burn the final year of their television deal though. Rumour has it that the NHL wants non-exclusive broadcast rights deals for the next season that could be worth $1 Billion if three or more carriers are in the mix.