Official (Alberta) Oil Discussion Thread

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1312068396859748352

[Johnny199r]

Didnt the Alberta government give some of these companies big subsidies lately? If so, was any of the money tied to employment numbers in the Province?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Didnt the Alberta government give some of these companies big subsidies lately? If so, was any of the money tied to employment numbers in the Province?

Not that I am aware of. There was money given for liabilities but given directly to the service providers not to oil companies.

[Ahuch]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Not that I am aware of. There was money given for liabilities but given directly to the service providers not to oil companies.

The news articles are usually just referencing the reduction in the provincial corporate tax rate, which of course has no stipulations other than lowering what they pay.

[Slava]

Well they gave them all a healthy tax break, which is somewhat hilarious because they all have massive carry-forwards at this point.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well they gave them all a healthy tax break, which is somewhat hilarious because they all have massive carry-forwards at this point.

If that's true, and it certainly seems likely, then the corporate tax cut didn't make any difference.

[Husky]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

If that's true, and it certainly seems likely, then the corporate tax cut didn't make any difference.

Tax cuts dont mean jack when not making taxable income.

Surface rentals and property taxes are the killer.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Husky

Tax cuts dont mean jack when not making taxable income.

Surface rentals and property taxes are the killer.

I know that. My point was more directed to those who see the cut in corporate taxes as some unjustifiable handout to the oil companies. Since none are profitable, a rate of 0% wouldn't save them any money.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I know that. My point was more directed to those who see the cut in corporate taxes as some unjustifiable handout to the oil companies. Since none are profitable, a rate of 0% wouldn't save them any money.

Depends on the company. Doesn't seem to matter either way:



In regards to TC Energy, after the tax cut, $1.5B equity investment from the province plus a further $6B loan guarantee, made layoffs on the heels of 2020 performance doing better than 2019:



https://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...l-results.html

CALGARY, Alberta, July 30, 2020 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- TC Energy Corporation (TSX, NYSE: TRP) (TC Energy or the Company) today announced net income attributable to common shares for second quarter 2020 of $1.3 billion or $1.36 per share compared to net income of $1.1 billion or $1.21 per share for the same period in 2019. For the six months ended June 30, 2020, net income attributable to common shares was $2.4 billion or $2.59 per share compared to net income of $2.1 billion or $2.30 per share for the same period in 2019.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by Husky

Tax cuts dont mean jack when not making taxable income.

Surface rentals and property taxes are the killer.

Suncor recorded a $1.116 billion deferred income tax liability recovery in 2019 because of Alberta staggered tax cuts, and because those tax cuts aren't staggered anymore that number will grow.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

Suncor recorded a $1.116 billion deferred income tax liability recovery in 2019 because of Alberta staggered tax cuts, and because those tax cuts aren't staggered anymore that number will grow.

Unlikely this will have a positive impact on their actual cash flow in any real way.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1313028274101067776

[CaptainCrunch]

Not Alberta but Come by Chance Oil refinery is dead


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...ving-1.5751203

[JR449]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Didnt the Alberta government give some of these companies big subsidies lately? If so, was any of the money tied to employment numbers in the Province?

An executive somewhere got rich ! lol

[Mr.Coffee]

Truthfully layoffs at places like Suncor or TC are a HUGE black mark on industry at this stage. Oil companies for decades have been short sighted about laying people off. And you can kinda wrap your head around it if it’s the juniors or middle sized companies. But when you have a massively pro industry government and all the negative press about oil and gas and then 3 of the largest oil and gas enterprises do a pile of layoffs????? I mean... guys......... you have to be smarter than this.

Oil and gas has failed (and I mean use of the word has, because that is literally what’s happened- it’s over) because Canadian oil and gas was too arrogant and too ignorant to win the PR battle. And at the end of the day it was the MOST important thing. When we all look back in 50 years and this is the equivalent Blockbuster business case study in future textbooks, it’ll be about how an industry thought it was bigger than public opinion and then came to reality with it. For shame. Because this was a winnable battle when it mattered, about 10-15 years ago. Now? Way, way way too late. It’s over.

[boogerz]

Suncor was still doing stock buybacks in Q1, even though the industry was already experiencing the OPEC-related oil price weakness and Covid was a known early stage threat as far back as Jan/Feb. Good thing that the boomer executive team will still walk away big bonuses this year. They deserve it for all their hard work!!!!!!

[Mr.Coffee]

Yep and just walks back into the feedback loop correctly about what it was always about. Greed, selfishness, etc.

I’ll never understand how trusts were outlawed but stock buybacks are still good to go. Just kidding I do understand it’s follow the money.

Our society is no different than any other society in history, and it is human nature at its root. Money, which is really about power. If you are an executive team and you are laying people off because of non-performance related “issues” and you’re at a large company, you’re part of the problem oil and gas suffers from and your rights to bitch revoked.

[Ducay]

This isn't intended as an insult to the above posters, but "buybacks" are the new "executive bonuses" as the boogeyman of evil corporations. People throw the term around like candy as a proxy for corporate greed.

Truth is, you can do buybacks at the same time as layoffs. Both can be good business decisions in a poor market and are not mutually exclusive. A stock buyback is literally just investing in your own company when the market prices are advantageous or undervalued.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Ducay

This isn't intended as an insult to the above posters, but "buybacks" are the new "executive bonuses" as the boogeyman of evil corporations. People throw the term around like candy as a proxy for corporate greed.

Truth is, you can do buybacks at the same time as layoffs. Both can be good business decisions in a poor market and are not mutually exclusive. A stock buyback is literally just investing in your own company when the market prices are advantageous or undervalued.

Disagree. While yes, buybacks can be totally benign in some scenarios, we now see buybacks at levels never seen before across industries.

This indicates that capital is so plentiful, that businesses can't keep up with allocating capital to their core value creation streams. It's a cheaper/easier lever to pop numbers for quarterly reports to make the execs look good. The whole point of capitalism is that capital gets allocated to value creation, and value creation has a side effect of job creation. The entire system is so slanted toward corporations right now that they have to find a way to basically dispose of their excess capital.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Husky

Tax cuts dont mean jack when not making taxable income.

Surface rentals and property taxes are the killer.

The point of the tax cuts were to create jobs, not increase profits. They don't create jobs even if they are making taxable income, they were pointless either way.