2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

As opposed to this thread that 5 days ago had half the posters talking about signing Pietrangelo, Hall and Markstrom with legitimate sincerity, but is now coming to terms with the fact that it will be re-sign Brodie, put more responsibility on Bennett and bring back Talbot?

I'm just parroting what I've been reading and hearing as I contemplate whether ritual seppuku upon completion of the possible OEL trade is too much of an over-reaction

As Flames fans, all we get is imagining all the fun stuff our GM tries and fails to do. We're just having our fun before the inevitable spoonfeeding of "these are all the reasons why we're bringing back the same team that barely made the playoffs, and this time it will surely be different."

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Naw... That's hitting .714 IMO

Hamilton: Homerun
Frolik: Double, but got thrown out trying to turn it into a triple
Elliott: Bloop single
Smith: Single
Hamonic: Line drive out.
Lindholm/Hanifin: Homerun
Neal: Down swinging at a ball over his head
Lucic: Passed ball on the strikeout, so we got on base.

I like baseball an analogy because it has varying degrees of success and failure.

You’re missing Ryan, Talbot, Engelland, Brouwer (and a bunch of little ones).

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

As Flames fans, all we get is imagining all the fun stuff our GM tries and fails to do. We're just having our fun before the inevitable spoonfeeding of "these are all the reasons why we're bringing back the same team that barely made the playoffs, and this time it will surely be different."

Except that up until last off season he made major changes each off season.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Except that up until last off season he made major changes each off season.

Unfortunately some of the changes were only major because of what we gave up vs. what we acquired, thinking of the Hamonic trade in particular.

I don’t know if the record shows that Treliving has been more active than other GM’s over his off seasons. Scorp did a great analysis a while back that shows he hasn’t gotten much done in season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Except that up until last off season he made major changes each off season.

I’d call Talbot and Looch pretty major (even if they were each making up for mistakes).

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Unfortunately some of the changes were only major because of what we gave up vs. what we acquired, thinking of the Hamonic trade in particular.

I don’t know if the record shows that Treliving has been more active than other GM’s over his off seasons. Scorp did a great analysis a while back that shows he hasn’t gotten much done in season.

Agreed he seems to do his work in the offseason
Which is different from what the poster stated

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Except that up until last off season he made major changes each off season.

I think the difference this year is there's discussion of even bigger moves than we've seen.

Acquiring Hamilton was a picks for player trade.

Hamilton, Ferland for Hanifin, Lindholm was basically a retool of 2nd tier guys on their teams, who grew into larger roles after the trade.

Signings and other trades have been pretty much secondary or tertiary guys, regardless of how "big" they seemed at the time. (Neal for example)

There's discussion of moving Gaudreau or Monahan or Gio or any combination of them. There's also potential to bring in new guys for these roles as well as both spots in the crease. Totally different scope when moving and/or acquiring new "primary" guys than we've seen with Tree in my opinion.

I'm looking forward to the next week, but at the same point won't be shocked if we see a very similar roster and hear the "we were in on lots of stuff" rhetoric.

[Poe969]

I'd say changes but not major changes. Adding to the team is a change but not a major one. A major change would be changing part of the existing core, trading a johnny, Monahan, Backlund, gio not trading draft picks for guys to help the core. Adding draft picks would be nice.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’d call Talbot and Looch pretty major (even if they were each making up for mistakes).

We’re probably splitting hairs here but I have a hard time giving the GM credit for being active because he can’t land on a goalie.

Does signing/trading for Hiller, Ramo, Elliot, Johnson, Lack, Smith, Talbot make him active or just not very good at finding a goalie?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'd say changes but not major changes. Adding to the team is a change but not a major one. A major change would be changing part of the existing core, trading a johnny, Monahan, Backlund, gio not trading draft picks for guys to help the core. Adding draft picks would be nice.

Hudler and Hamilton and Ferland getting traded were probably close to core changes. With Hudler it was time, and with Hamilton and Ferland it was to add two potential core pieces.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’d call Talbot and Looch pretty major (even if they were each making up for mistakes).

I rate a trade based on how many pages of discussion it generates. That makes the Lucic trade the most major in Flames history.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

I rate a trade based on how many pages of discussion it generates. That makes the Lucic trade the most major in Flames history.

Have a look at the Sven trade discussion. It broke CP.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Icon

I think the difference this year is there's discussion of even bigger moves than we've seen.

Acquiring Hamilton was a picks for player trade.

Hamilton, Ferland for Hanifin, Lindholm was basically a retool of 2nd tier guys on their teams, who grew into larger roles after the trade.

Signings and other trades have been pretty much secondary or tertiary guys, regardless of how "big" they seemed at the time. (Neal for example)

There's discussion of moving Gaudreau or Monahan or Gio or any combination of them. There's also potential to bring in new guys for these roles as well as both spots in the crease. Totally different scope when moving and/or acquiring new "primary" guys than we've seen with Tree in my opinion.

I'm looking forward to the next week, but at the same point won't be shocked if we see a very similar roster and hear the "we were in on lots of stuff" rhetoric.

To temper any expectations there’s very little actual rumour about Monahan and none about Gio. Zilch

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'd say changes but not major changes. Adding to the team is a change but not a major one. A major change would be changing part of the existing core, trading a johnny, Monahan, Backlund, gio not trading draft picks for guys to help the core. Adding draft picks would be nice.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

We’re probably splitting hairs here but I have a hard time giving the GM credit for being active because he can’t land on a goalie.

Does signing/trading for Hiller, Ramo, Elliot, Johnson, Lack, Smith, Talbot make him active or just not very good at finding a goalie?

Again let's recall the original post I responded to which was:

"As Flames fans, all we get is imagining all the fun stuff our GM tries and fails to do. We're just having our fun before the inevitable spoonfeeding of "these are all the reasons why we're bringing back the same team that barely made the playoffs, and this time it will surely be different.""

Which just isn't accurate.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Have a look at the Sven trade discussion. It broke CP.

That’s a lightweight trade of only 102 pages. Lucic/Neal is at 191 with many spinoff threads.

Acquiring Hamilton reached 94 pages. Hamilton/Ferland for Lindholm/Hanifin did reach 212 mind you.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again let's recall the original post I responded to which was:

"As Flames fans, all we get is imagining all the fun stuff our GM tries and fails to do. We're just having our fun before the inevitable spoonfeeding of "these are all the reasons why we're bringing back the same team that barely made the playoffs, and this time it will surely be different.""

Which just isn't accurate.

Treliving has had one big trade, which was acquiring Hamilton. Maybe two if you count him trading that same player away a few years later for what were expected to be middling support pieces (and we will see if that really is the case for Lindholm when he isn’t being carried by Johnny).

Dicking around with stopgap goalies every year, sending out majorly important picks for a mediocre defensemen, and acquiring the worst contract in the league don’t exactly qualify as groundbreaking moves. Maybe they were for the teams on the other end.

Other than that, his moves have been standard ones that every GM makes. He’s probably as conservative as one gets when you look at what he’s actually done to help a team that consistently hasn’t been able to take the next step.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

That’s a lightweight trade of only 102 pages. Lucic/Neal is at 191 with many spinoff threads.

Acquiring Hamilton reached 94 pages. Hamilton/Ferland for Lindholm/Hanifin did reach 212 mind you.

Trades that divide the fanbase are the ones that will have an insane amount of pages. The first Dougie trades was loved by 90%+ of the fanbase. The Lucic/Neal and Lindholm/Hamilton trades were divided from the start.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

To temper any expectations there’s very little actual rumour about Monahan and none about Gio. Zilch

Fair, though I always kinda feel if enough of us are thinking of talking about it, so is someone in the organization, as well as other teams at least inquiring. But as you said no actual rumors. So long winded posts by lots of people results in the typical maybe we make a big splash, maybe we do not much, lol.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Treliving has had one big trade, which was acquiring Hamilton. Maybe two if you count him trading that same player away a few years later for what were expected to be middling support pieces (and we will see if that really is the case for Lindholm when he isn’t being carried by Johnny).

Dicking around with stopgap goalies every year, sending out majorly important picks for a mediocre defensemen, and acquiring the worst contract in the league don’t exactly qualify as groundbreaking moves. Maybe they were for the teams on the other end.

Other than that, his moves have been standard ones that every GM makes. He’s probably as conservative as one gets when you look at what he’s actually done to help a team that consistently hasn’t been able to take the next step.

I don't know how anyone would consider the Lindholm/Hamilton deal to be anything but a very large deal. How many bigger deals have there been in recent years? And I don't think most people were expecting Hanifin and Lindholm to be "middling support pieces" - they were acquired because they were front line players, and have been for the Flames. Any deal where you are bringing in a top 6 forward and a top 4 dman is a big one.

And you are moving the goal posts from strongly suggesting he always brings back the same team, to now simply not likely the changes he has made. Different things.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Icon

Fair, though I always kinda feel if enough of us are thinking of talking about it, so is someone in the organization, as well as other teams at least inquiring. But as you said no actual rumors. So long winded posts by lots of people results in the typical maybe we make a big splash, maybe we do not much, lol.

You may feel that way.

In reality, Treliving has a large staff of professional people that actually scout opposition teams/ players. He also knows his own players very well.

He is banking on these reports and opinions.