Potential Gaudreau trades: Rest of Eastern Conference Post#253

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Go ahead. There are tons of ways to discuss why it isn't as urgent as the Johnny situation and that we can't replace the top-line C slot as easily as the top-line winger spots.

Monahan is not a top line C though he just plays there, Gaudreau stirs that line and plays more like the center once they have the puck on offense.

Monahan would never reach 80 points again without a play making winger like Gaudreau.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Monahan is not a top line C though he just plays there, Gaudreau stirs that line and plays more like the center once they have the puck on offense.

Monahan would never reach 80 points again without a play making winger like Gaudreau.

The coaching literally put the puck in Johnny's hands for every single zone entry. It's weird this far into his career, but we don't really know what Monahan is.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Monahan is not a top line C though he just plays there, .

I'm really sick of hearing this from Flames fans. Monahan may not be a superstar center, but he is still a top line center. Yeah on an elite team maybe he is a #2, but that doesn't change the fact he's a top 31 center in the NHL.

[really?]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The coaching literally put the puck in Johnny's hands for every single zone entry. It's weird this far into his career, but we don't really know what Monahan is.

Watching him carry the puck in any amount of traffic provides some evidence he is not a good puck handler. He has many positive attributes (shot, spatial awareness, acceptable in-line speed, size), but his puck handling isn't what would be expected of a player who would guide an offensive line. He has shown he can play effectively in the top 6, but putting stock in him suddenly breaking opponents down one on one if Gaudreau is traded is likely to end in disappointment. I think we have a pretty good idea what Sean Monahan is, and unfortunately some can't appreciate that, and some can't accept it. When used in a proper role Sean Monahan plays a safe, smart game, and that type of player can help any team.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Monahan is not a top line C though he just plays there, Gaudreau stirs that line and plays more like the center once they have the puck on offense.

Monahan would never reach 80 points again without a play making winger like Gaudreau.

It's very simple: Gaudreau is more valuable with the puck on his stick than without it. Tic-tac-toe is wonderful when it works, but ~half of the time it isn't there and you have to put the puck to an empty space where your teammate has better odds of continuing the play than the defender has to achieve possession/clear the zone. If Gaudreau is the guy fetching that loose puck, the 60/40 puck battle odds become 40/60.

Gaudreau probably wouldn't reach 80 pts with Backlund as his C. And that's not a knock on Backlund.

Even if we landed the reincarnation of Joe Thornton in his prime, it's highly unlikely that a coach would put he and Gaudreau on the same line.

We know that Lindholm and Tkachuk can be ~PPG wingers. Mangiapane, Dubé, and UFA's are readily available to fill the void. We don't have the same backup plan or ease of replacement behind Monahan.


If we move Monahan without a real plan to replace him, we might as well tear it down to the studs.

[Classic_Sniper]

With the Johnny Gaudreau trade rumors looking like a raging inferno now, it’s interesting to look back into history and see the parallels between Johnny Gaudreau and Kent Nilsson. I wasn’t even alive during his tenure with the Flames, but the Gaudreau era looks to be ending in a similar fashion to the one they called “The Magic Man.”

Both beyond talented, highlight reel skills, elite playmakers of their respective eras, both played 6 full seasons with the Flames organization, 400ish games, underwhelming playoffs by comparison, both could only take the Flames as far as the second round.

I’m sure there are other neat parallels and non-parallels, but it’s funny to see how history has sort of repeated itself. I don’t know if a trade for Gaudreau ends up as another Joe Nieuwendyk or finals appearance, but very I’ll be keeping tabs.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Buffalo

Gaudreau+Kylington+19
For
Reinhart+Montour+8+39

Rationale for Buffalo:
This is a franchise that needs to shake things up. They have a new GM and their franchise player just out the team on notice he is not pleased with missing the playoffs. Buffalo also has to shed payroll and whole Johnny has a 6.75M cap hit for 2 years but after he is paid his next bonus he is only owed $10M in cash so essentially he is a $5M player for the next 2 Years.

In addition a new GM might not be thrilled with 2 long term RFA deals that need to be done. In that sense it is similar to Carolina where the Flames acquired Lindholm and Hanifin.

Rationale for Calgary.
Right shots to slide into the top 6 and top 4. The Flames would have to be willing to offer 5-6 year deals but at 24 and 26 they fit the age group of the team. The 8th overall pick adds a much better prospect than 19th overall and they get an additional 2nd

Flames top 6/4

Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm
Mangipane-Backlund-Reinhart

Gio-Andersson
Hanifin-Montour

Amazing proposition and well thought out. I would do this deal in a second which is probably why buffalo doesn't do it. I just dont know why...

[Vinny01]

With all the Philly talk what are people’s thoughts of this trade (I assume it will not be popular)

To Flyers: Gaudreau, Bennett, Kylington
To Flames: Konecny, Gostisbhere, Frost, 2nd

Flames see high on Bennett and replace him with the younger Frost. They also replace his grit with the addition of the better Konecny. Ghost is in for salary reasons and Kylington doesn’t really fit with all the LHD on the team. The team still likely needs to make a few moves to fit Hall, Markstrom and another top 4 D on the roster but moving Ryan and possibly Rittich could help them fill out the roster.

Flames trade a 27, 24, and 23 year old for a 27, 23, and 21 year old so they get a little younger up front and gain an expansion slot with Frost being exempt.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

It's very simple: Gaudreau is more valuable with the puck on his stick than without it. Tic-tac-toe is wonderful when it works, but ~half of the time it isn't there and you have to put the puck to an empty space where your teammate has better odds of continuing the play than the defender has to achieve possession/clear the zone. If Gaudreau is the guy fetching that loose puck, the 60/40 puck battle odds become 40/60.

Gaudreau probably wouldn't reach 80 pts with Backlund as his C. And that's not a knock on Backlund.

Even if we landed the reincarnation of Joe Thornton in his prime, it's highly unlikely that a coach would put he and Gaudreau on the same line.

We know that Lindholm and Tkachuk can be ~PPG wingers. Mangiapane, Dubé, and UFA's are readily available to fill the void. We don't have the same backup plan or ease of replacement behind Monahan.


If we move Monahan without a real plan to replace him, we might as well tear it down to the studs.

I would have agreed with this any time in Johnny’s career prior to two months ago, and now I’m not so sure.

Johnny is obviously the most talented player we have with the puck on his stick. However, he’s also 5 ft 8 and generously 160lbs.

As soon as Johnny has the puck, he gets swarmed. He’s not large enough to protect the puck with his body, so he has to dish it as soon as anyone comes near him.

Gaudreau is also the most explosive skater on the team, but as soon as he touches the puck, that advantage is nullified because he can be hit.

Johnny is tiny. He’s elusive. He can change directions better than 99% of the league.

He needs someone, or some two, to hold onto the puck and win battles. He needs to be able to disappear in coverage, and emerge all alone at the empty side of the cage.

Nobody can touch him without the puck, and precious few can skate with him. So get him open.

Gaudreau’s not the quarterback; he’s a wide receiver. Use him as such.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

With all the Philly talk what are people’s thoughts of this trade (I assume it will not be popular)

To Flyers: Gaudreau, Bennett, Kylington
To Flames: Konecny, Gostisbhere, Frost, 2nd

Flames see high on Bennett and replace him with the younger Frost. They also replace his grit with the addition of the better Konecny. Ghost is in for salary reasons and Kylington doesn’t really fit with all the LHD on the team. The team still likely needs to make a few moves to fit Hall, Markstrom and another top 4 D on the roster but moving Ryan and possibly Rittich could help them fill out the roster.

Flames trade a 27, 24, and 23 year old for a 27, 23, and 21 year old so they get a little younger up front and gain an expansion slot with Frost being exempt.

I think your proposals, in general, have been quite good.

For this one, I think it depends how much value (or negative value) Gostisbhere has. I actually think the second might have to switch to being from the Flames, since Konecny's contract and position give him a lot of value. Bennett, despite having more value than usual, doesn't get Frost.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I think your proposals, in general, have been quite good.

For this one, I think it depends how much value (or negative value) Gostisbhere has. I actually think the second might have to switch to being from the Flames, since Konecny's contract and position give him a lot of value. Bennett, despite having more value than usual, doesn't get Frost.

Gaudreau > Konecny
Bennett has more value than Gostisbehere
Kylington = 2nd (though this part maybe doesn't need to be there)
Frost makes up for the first two parts

Reasonable value - at least in the ballpark for discussion (unlike the Ghost + Voracek suggestion)

[Love]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I'm really sick of hearing this from Flames fans. Monahan may not be a superstar center, but he is still a top line center. Yeah on an elite team maybe he is a #2, but that doesn't change the fact he's a top 31 center in the NHL.

On an elite team he's a #3. On an average, non Flames team he's a #2/powerplay specialist

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Love

On an elite team he's a #3.

That's just total BS, man. Monahan is a top-six forward on every single team in the league.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I think your proposals, in general, have been quite good.

For this one, I think it depends how much value (or negative value) Gostisbhere has. I actually think the second might have to switch to being from the Flames, since Konecny's contract and position give him a lot of value. Bennett, despite having more value than usual, doesn't get Frost.

I look at it this way.

Reading the Gaudreau thread on HF I see Flyers fans having a huge reluctance to trade Frost due to the uncertain health of Patrick and they don’t have much in terms of other options at center which is why Derek Grant/Nate Thompson we’re brought in at the deadline. Bennett definitely fits that need and I do think teams will see that playoff performance and get a renewed hope there is still untapped potential there. Bennett also provides the sandpaper that is lost with Konecny coming the other way

Gaudreau is the hometown star that joins a deep team and likely would play the rest of his career there. I could see him getting 100+pts playing for AV.

Kylington- needs a new deal and by the time that happens the cap is balanced out evenly. With Gio, Valimaki, Hanifin, Gostisbhere, Mackey there is not much room for him and it seems like the organization isn’t extremely high on him.

Gostisbhere would be hoping for a bounce back in a new situation. Could be a powerplay fixture. I feel like he needs to be part of the deal for cap purposes mostly but the Flames need Dmen next year and he can be part of that

Konecny fits the age group of the team and is a proven young top 6 forward who plays right wing. Put him on a line with Tkachuk moving forward.

Frost would step in and replace Bennett as the 3C and hopefully he has top 6 potential. Expansion protection not required is huge for the Flames

I don’t think Kylington or the 2nd are required but if they remain I don’t see how the 2nd switches to Calgary considering their 6 players involved

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Love

On an elite team he's a #3. On an average, non Flames team he's a #2/powerplay specialist

LOL how many teams have a #3 centre who scores 25-35 goals a season? Monahan is at least a #2 on almost any team.

[Roof-Daddy]

That bait catches tons of fish in lake CP.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I'm really sick of hearing this from Flames fans. Monahan may not be a superstar center, but he is still a top line center. Yeah on an elite team maybe he is a #2, but that doesn't change the fact he's a top 31 center in the NHL.

You'd have to do some serious mental gymnastics to name 31 better centers than Monahan. I tried once and got to the low/mid 20's.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Love

On an elite team he's a #3. On an average, non Flames team he's a #2/powerplay specialist

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That bait catches tons of fish in lake CP.

And the same fish too!

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

LOL how many teams have a #3 centre who scores 25-35 goals a season? Monahan is at least a #2 on almost any team.

That why this team would be Elite!