[News] UPD: Geoff Ward officially named the franchise's 20th head coach (2 year deal)

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well look at the Islanders under Trotz. It matters a lot. I don't fault any fan reconsidering their commitment to this team. I'm actually a little in that boat. I'm not going to cheer for another team or quit being a Flames fan but I'm just not feeling invested in Treliving's Flames. It started eroding after the Gulutzan hire and it's just continuing as the direction seems to be a whole lot of meh. I know there's going to be no cup or extended success and that kind of takes the fun out of being a fan as there's no hope, just hopelessness until the next GM gets hired and we have to start this all over again.

The big thing with Trotz is the full support of management that the coach runs things and if the players don't buy in they sit, see Barzal last year and early this year. Any player that doesn't "feel good abut the coach" or like playing a certain style needs to sit down until they buy in, TEAM FIRST.

[Wisers]

Geoff Ward is a horrible coach. This is typical from this organization. I honestly believe that Treliving should be fired. Useless in every way. But hey, who am I to say?

[dissentowner]

Hopefully Huska and Siglet are not brought back. I think that would go a long ways to helping things out.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Hopefully Huska and Siglet are not brought back. I think that would go a long ways to helping things out.

Yeah, especially Sigalet. Has any goalie improved under him?

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Every fan has the right to support or not support their team. I stopped being a Rockets fan many years ago, due to the culmination of many decisions the team made.
I don't look down on those that make this decision - it's up to each person.
But either do it or don't do it. The constant false promises of "that's it for me" are more irritating than the actual reality of some fans choosing to stop rooting for this club.
At least from my POV.

I don't get what you're saying here. Is your position "if you don't watch the games and disagree with the way the organization is heading, shut up and go away?"

The number of games I actually watched this year can be counted on one hand, and even that felt like too much. This team isn't fun to watch, it's poorly built, and management appears to have no appetite for change. I follow what the team does on paper because I find trades, signings, and off-ice moves interesting. And I advocate for people to demand better of this organization because we often underestimate the power we have as fans. I think we've simply been conditioned to believe we're helpless and that we should just accept mediocrity as the norm.

It's not some vague threat of "I'm gonna stop watching, so there!" screamed into the void. Stop paying for garbage and you'll stop getting garbage. As fans we have a right to demand that from an organization we hand over our money to support, either willingly or through our tax dollars. Is that such an unreasonable stance?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

Sadly after 21 years following this team, I think that’s it for me.

I don’t get how some of you are happy to support yet another mediocre coach being put in place. The only times this team has performed in the playoffs has been when they had decent coaches in place. D Sutter and Hartley. It’s such a key position that it is quite frankly more important than any of the current crop of Calgary players. It’s where I put my money first, regardless of if you are rebuilding or a contender that position is the driving force of the whole team.

I'm always amazed how much Hartley is romanticized in this city.

He was pretty much pulled off the scrap heap to coach in an era where they had no expectations.

I appreciated his play with the media, and the fact the team worked hard but they were massively overplayed through his entire tenure.

Even the playoffs series against Vancouver, which was the best draw a 2nd place team could get in my memory wasn't a concise Flames win.

in that series the Flames had 45% of the shot attempts (five on five), 47% of the xGF%, and 48% of the high danger chances. They were ... out played.

He got the result, and you can't take that away from him, but not so sure it was exemplary coaching. If Vancouver got any goaltending in that series it has a different out come.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I don't get what you're saying here. Is your position "if you don't watch the games and disagree with the way the organization is heading, shut up and go away?"

The number of games I actually watched this year can be counted on one hand, and even that felt like too much. This team isn't fun to watch, it's poorly built, and management appears to have no appetite for change. I follow what the team does on paper because I find trades, signings, and off-ice moves interesting. And I advocate for people to demand better of this organization because we often underestimate the power we have as fans. I think we've simply been conditioned to believe we're helpless and that we should just accept mediocrity as the norm.

It's not some vague threat of "I'm gonna stop watching, so there!" screamed into the void. Stop paying for garbage and you'll stop getting garbage. As fans we have a right to demand a better product when it's been subpar for so long. Is that such an unreasonable stance?

No my point was there seems to be a constant threat of "i'm out". Which is fine. If people don't want to follow the team that's up to them. And if they do want to follow the team, as part of that they have the right to challenge what the team is doing.

But I just find it funny that there is a constant "that's it for me!" which almost always doesn't go anywhere.

I've never seen a fan movement that demands better performance from a team actually work. I don't know if you are suggesting a boycott or what.

But yes as fans I think we are largely helpless. Threats of no longer being a fan aren't going to do anything. Nor would I want the team to make any decisions on the basis of what they think fans want. That would be awful.

Bottom line is if someone doesn't want to be a fan of a team that has a long history of poor performance, that's perfectly rationale. If you aren't having fun following the team - then make the call. More than likely this team will continue to be mediocre. So if that's going to drive you nuts, then perhaps it is time to consider finding a team that is more successful to follow. Nothing wrong with that.

[Burning Beard]

Boy reading the threads on here lately this fan base looks as soft as they claim Johnny and Manahan are.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm always amazed how much Hartley is romanticized in this city.

He was pretty much pulled off the scrap heap to coach in an era where they had no expectations.

I appreciated his play with the media, and the fact the team worked hard but they were massively overplayed through his entire tenure.

Even the playoffs series against Vancouver, which was the best draw a 2nd place team could get in my memory wasn't a concise Flames win.

in that series the Flames had 45% of the shot attempts (five on five), 47% of the xGF%, and 48% of the high danger chances. They were ... out played.

He got the result, and you can't take that away from him, but not so sure it was exemplary coaching. If Vancouver got any goaltending in that series it has a different out come.

All due respect to Bob, but he was an AWFUL strategic coach. He was brought in to instill work ethic into a rebuilding, young team. That's it. His solution to every problem was "work harder." He was a stupendously bad strategic mind whose results were bolstered by a white-hot PDO run (everything went in!) and a lucky match-up against a deficient Vancouver team in the playoffs.



Gulutzan was brought in to add strategy and philosophy to a hard-working team.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I don't get what you're saying here. Is your position "if you don't watch the games and disagree with the way the organization is heading, shut up and go away?"

The number of games I actually watched this year can be counted on one hand, and even that felt like too much. This team isn't fun to watch, it's poorly built, and management appears to have no appetite for change. I follow what the team does on paper because I find trades, signings, and off-ice moves interesting. And I advocate for people to demand better of this organization because we often underestimate the power we have as fans. I think we've simply been conditioned to believe we're helpless and that we should just accept mediocrity as the norm.

It's not some vague threat of "I'm gonna stop watching, so there!" screamed into the void. Stop paying for garbage and you'll stop getting garbage. As fans we have a right to demand that from an organization we hand over our money to support, either willingly or through our tax dollars. Is that such an unreasonable stance?

Sums up my feelings exactly. I can't help but to want the best for the team, but cannot bring myself to watch, unless Rogers throws me free seats in their box. They managed to suck me back in that one Hartley year, but GG hockey quickly took care of that. What can you do? Must be like being a pro football fan in Ohio. Hope that there is a lot of firing/hiring/trading and that the draft is exciting...

[bax]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, especially Sigalet. Has any goalie improved under him?

Rittich became an NHL player. Sigalet was the one who told Tre to sign him in the first place. Talbot had a really nice bounce back year. I think he even credited Sigalet for being part of his turn around.

Truth is I don't know how fans can evaluate a goalie coach given we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. This is even more true when you look at the list of goalies the Flames have had under their tenure. Mostly average to below average goalies.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I don't get what you're saying here. Is your position "if you don't watch the games and disagree with the way the organization is heading, shut up and go away?"

The number of games I actually watched this year can be counted on one hand, and even that felt like too much. This team isn't fun to watch, it's poorly built, and management appears to have no appetite for change. I follow what the team does on paper because I find trades, signings, and off-ice moves interesting. And I advocate for people to demand better of this organization because we often underestimate the power we have as fans. I think we've simply been conditioned to believe we're helpless and that we should just accept mediocrity as the norm.

It's not some vague threat of "I'm gonna stop watching, so there!" screamed into the void. Stop paying for garbage and you'll stop getting garbage. As fans we have a right to demand that from an organization we hand over our money to support, either willingly or through our tax dollars. Is that such an unreasonable stance?

I think the point is that if you don't enjoy watching the team, and you don't even enjoy following the team, stop. Just do something else. Nobody really cares about your personal decisions on what you do with your time. It's not interesting or compelling to read about how people don't like the product and don't watch the product or can't find a reason to watch, it seems pretty odd.

It's entertainment, it's meant to be fun. If it's not fun, do your self a favour and give it up. What's the point in following a sports team if it isn't for fun? There isn't one. None of this actually matters if it's not a source of enjoyment. And if it was and no longer is, find a new one.

It's completely fair to be critical of decisions or to discuss the good and bad, but most people at the end of the day still have fun and enjoy doing it. What incentive do you, as a fan, have to watch? Because hockey is fun to watch. That's it. That's the incentive. If that's not more than enough, stop watching.

I find it odd that some "fans" talk about giving up the team, or cheering for someone else, or whatever. The Flames owe you nothing, whatever you paid and whatever attention you give, you've received what you were owed for it: hockey. The vast majority of people who are "done" with a team, or a band, or a specific actor or director, or any other entertainment you can follow, just... stop. They don't make declarations or state of the unions about it, they just stop, because that's what you do when you are actually over something. And if you don't while saying you are, it's all just bull#### isn't it?

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No my point was there seems to be a constant threat of "i'm out". Which is fine. If people don't want to follow the team that's up to them. And if they do want to follow the team, as part of that they have the right to challenge what the team is doing.

But I just find it funny that there is a constant "that's it for me!" which almost always doesn't go anywhere.

I've never seen a fan movement that demands better performance from a team actually work. I don't know if you are suggesting a boycott or what.

But yes as fans I think we are largely helpless. Threats of no longer being a fan aren't going to do anything. Nor would I want the team to make any decisions on the basis of what they think fans want. That would be awful.

Bottom line is if someone doesn't want to be a fan of a team that has a long history of poor performance, that's perfectly rationale. If you aren't having fun following the team - then make the call. More than likely this team will continue to be mediocre. So if that's going to drive you nuts, then perhaps it is time to consider finding a team that is more successful to follow. Nothing wrong with that.

Maybe a lot of times those threats don't go anywhere. Sometimes they do. I know I sure don't have any love left in my heart for this team under Treliving's management, so I don't subject myself to it. No need to shout it from the rooftops for all to hear, but I also won't shy away from encouraging others to do the same if they're no longer getting any joy from a poorly run franchise playing dump and chase hockey that doesn't win games.

I'm not suggesting a boycott or a mass demonstration or anything. But I believe that if more people simply stopped shelling out money for merchandise, subscriptions, tickets, etc, when they don't get any enjoyment out of the product, eventually it reaches a breaking point with those who call the shots. If you don't give them a reason to change anything, why would they? The system works. As long as the team just makes the playoffs every now and then, people will continue to show up and give us money.

And like I said, I believe we've been conditioned into a state of learned helplessness. The media keeps tabs on the temperature of the fanbase. And as much as they pretend like they don't, players and management do pay attention to what the media is reporting.

I guess what I'm saying is people have a right to express their disinterest in supporting a mediocre product. And it doesn't make them any less a fan than people who do. Even if I'm wrong and it's all just a drop in the ocean, we at least owe it to ourselves to be honest with our thoughts and hope that it has some collective influence on the future. Otherwise all we're left with is hopelessness and cynicism.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I guess what I'm saying is people have a right to express their disinterest in supporting a mediocre product. And it doesn't make them any less a fan than people who do.

Yes, it does. If you don't watch or support the team or get any enjoyment/interest out of it, you're not a fan.

It's the basic definition:

fan
noun
noun: fan; plural noun: fans
a person who has a strong interest in or admiration for a particular person or thing

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think the point is that if you don't enjoy watching the team, and you don't even enjoy following the team, stop. Just do something else. Nobody really cares about your personal decisions on what you do with your time. It's not interesting or compelling to read about how people don't like the product and don't watch the product or can't find a reason to watch, it seems pretty odd.

It's entertainment, it's meant to be fun. If it's not fun, do your self a favour and give it up. What's the point in following a sports team if it isn't for fun? There isn't one. None of this actually matters if it's not a source of enjoyment. And if it was and no longer is, find a new one.

It's completely fair to be critical of decisions or to discuss the good and bad, but most people at the end of the day still have fun and enjoy doing it. What incentive do you, as a fan, have to watch? Because hockey is fun to watch. That's it. That's the incentive. If that's not more than enough, stop watching.

I find it odd that some "fans" talk about giving up the team, or cheering for someone else, or whatever. The Flames owe you nothing, whatever you paid and whatever attention you give, you've received what you were owed for it: hockey. The vast majority of people who are "done" with a team, or a band, or a specific actor or director, or any other entertainment you can follow, just... stop. They don't make declarations or state of the unions about it, they just stop, because that's what you do when you are actually over something. And if you don't while saying you are, it's all just bull#### isn't it?

I think it is that you always have that hope, no matter how irrational, that it will all be fixed and things will go how they are "supposed" to. And, once in a while, you get a season like 2004 or 2015, where things become fun again and your forlorn hope is rekindled. And, to be fair, after 2004, things looked "good" for a while. We were challenging, getting players, but "something" was always causing us to fall short.
Such is the cycle. Clearly, MrDonkey is still here because he has hope, even if it is subconscious. Maybe things can be changed.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yes, it does. If you don't watch or support the team or get any enjoyment/interest out of it, you're not a fan.

It's the basic definition:

I think you're missing the point. One can still support the team and hope for them to get better, and find interest in discussing their moves and the implications therein... without wanting their money to go towards a new stadium for them to play Geoff Ward hockey in with a roster held together with duct tape and twigs. Following trades and transactions and sharing ideas with other people over some common topic is still in its own way supporting the team, and can be a source of joy for a lot of people. Everyone here wants the Flames to get better. Participating in a community is a fundamental human activity. Is it fair for you or anyone else to judge who is or is not a "real" fan on the basis of how they choose to express it?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I think you're missing the point. One can still support the team and hope for them to get better, and find interest in discussing their moves and the implications therein... without wanting their money to go towards a new stadium for them to play Geoff Ward hockey in with a roster held together with duct tape and twigs. Following trades and transactions and sharing ideas with other people over some common topic is still in its own way supporting the team, and can be a source of joy for a lot of people. Everyone here wants the Flames to get better. Participating in a community is a fundamental human activity. Is it fair for you or anyone else to judge who is or is not a "real" fan on the basis of how they choose to express it?

The conversation started, in part, because you said you were struggling to give a damn about the team.
Giving a damn, basically is what makes you a fan. That doesn't mean you agree with the direction. But you care. That's what makes us fans.
So it seems like you still do give a damn.

No one is defining who is or isn't a real fan, except applying the basic definition of it.

[Toonage]

Geoff Ward coming up on Sportsnet 590 Hockeycentral

He'll also be on Leafs Lunch around 11

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I think it is that you always have that hope, no matter how irrational, that it will all be fixed and things will go how they are "supposed" to. And, once in a while, you get a season like 2004 or 2015, where things become fun again and your forlorn hope is rekindled. And, to be fair, after 2004, things looked "good" for a while. We were challenging, getting players, but "something" was always causing us to fall short.
Such is the cycle. Clearly, MrDonkey is still here because he has hope, even if it is subconscious. Maybe things can be changed.

I read that as "McDonkey", which shows me two things:

1) McJesus has been so thrust upon us that I see him in things which are not there; and
2) That shall be his new nickname from me. McDonkey.

[ComixZone]

Burke reiterates the Flames did not interview external candidates on the Fan 590, there was an internal interview process with Tree and the owners for Ward.