2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Just don't waste any 2nd or 3rd round picks drafting or trading for goaltenders.
Neither has worked for Calgary.

It's probably more of a development thing, since that's the common denominator over the past 30 years, in both drafting and trading.

It probably has a little to do with development, but all teams struggle drafting goaltenders.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The last thing the Flames should do is waste more (valuable) draft picks on goaltenders.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/playe...roslav-askarov

What if this one is still available at 19?

[Vinny01]

I could see the Flames trading the 19th pick in a trade to the Coyotes for Keumper, and Hall’s rights. If they get Hall signed then we see Johnny moved to a team bringing a 1st rounder back.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

https://www.eliteprospects.com/playe...roslav-askarov

What if this one is still available at 19?

I may look dumb in 5 years but I'm just playing the odds. Unless they are a surefire knockout, obvious pick, you don't draft goaltenders in the 1st round.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames should draft more goalies to increase their odds of developing one. In the BT era they have drafted 3 goalies in 6 drafts. The Flames has not even had a legitimate starter during those six years, so it is clearly a position of need.

You would be hard pressed to find a team that has drafted fewer goalies over that period of time in the NHL. All the more perplexing when one considers it is the position that has the longest development curve. BT could try to address this in the next two drafts and pick say 3 more goalies to increase his odds and maybe one would develop into a NHL starter by 2025. Just perplexing as to why he drafted so few goalies over that period of time, given the lack of organizational depth at that position.

It's not really all that perplexing when you actually look at all of the information though. For starters if you start drafting more goalies than you already are, where are they all going to play? Once a player goes pro we really only have 1-2 developmental spots in the organization.

That might even be a stretch, as two equal prospects will need to split time in the AHL. You probably want a good prospect to take on a starters role in the AHL and be paired with a veteran so they have somebody to learn from like Demko and Bachman.

Parsons has been playing as the starter in the ECHL, but I don't think that's thats been good for his development. Truth is you can only develop so many goalies at a time (and they take a long time).

Ideal scenario is that you have a guy developing in college, a guy developing in junior, and a guy developing in the AHL, but what if you don't like any of the college goalies available in the draft? Do you waste a pick on one anyways?

Also sure, he has only drafted 3 goalies, but in that same time span he has also brought in Schneider, Rittich, and Zagidulin as prospects. We all know the goalie development curve can be all over the place so it's a legitimate strategy. Adding 1 goalie prospect per seasons seems like the most you should be doing because like I mentioned above- they need to be getting reps in order to develop.

[AC]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1304063750715170816

[Flash Walken]

Please God, let Smith return to Edmonton.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I may look dumb in 5 years but I'm just playing the odds. Unless they are a surefire knockout, obvious pick, you don't draft goaltenders in the 1st round.

It's basically the same for every player though. You might get Carter Hart, you might get Malcolm Subban. Same thing could be said for anything other prospect. Holloway could be the next Jordan Staal or he could be the next Kris Chucko.

Listen to your scouts and look at each prospect individually. Don't worry what has happened in the past. Either you believe in his potential or you don't.

I mean who wouldn't trade Jankowski for Vasilevskiy right about now?

[the_only_turek_fan]

If the Flames trade a first for Kuemper I am going to lose it.

[Toonage]

I love the extremes there in Edmonton.

Well we're going to see about this young cup winning goalie, but if he's too expensive we go right back to the 45 year old who may literally fall apart this season.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I could see the Flames trading the 19th pick in a trade to the Coyotes for Keumper, and Hall’s rights. If they get Hall signed then we see Johnny moved to a team bringing a 1st rounder back.

BT should be fired if he does this.

Lots of teams looking to cut salary (incl Arizona) and won’t get full value. Surplus of goaltending options Which should drive down prices. Paying a premium for a 30 year old goalie Who hasn’t won squat with 2 years left on contract is incomprehensible Given the market.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames should draft more goalies to increase their odds of developing one. In the BT era they have drafted 3 goalies in 6 drafts. The Flames has not even had a legitimate starter during those six years, so it is clearly a position of need.

You would be hard pressed to find a team that has drafted fewer goalies over that period of time in the NHL. All the more perplexing when one considers it is the position that has the longest development curve. BT could try to address this in the next two drafts and pick say 3 more goalies to increase his odds and maybe one would develop into a NHL starter by 2025. Just perplexing as to why he drafted so few goalies over that period of time, given the lack of organizational depth at that position.

It all comes back to a shortage of picks in the last couple drafts IMO. If you only have 3-4 picks in a draft you are going to be less likely to draft a goalie with one of those picks.

But yeah I was looking at the draft patterns for two teams that have kind of been NHL goalie factories in Washington and Nashville and their pattern in the past was that they were drafting a goalie per draft on average.

At the same time though it's not always the smartest to use draft capital on goalies. They are hard to predict, have long development times, and most often move teams before really breaking out as a goalie.

What the Flames have been been poor at doing is identifying what goalie to acquire at the pro level with strong pro scouting and have wasted assets on Smith/Elliott when better goalies were available.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by bax

It's basically the same for every player though. You might get Carter Hart, you might get Malcolm Subban. Same thing could be said for anything other prospect. Holloway could be the next Jordan Staal or he could be the next Kris Chucko.

Listen to your scouts and look at each prospect individually. Don't worry what has happened in the past. Either you believe in his potential or you don't.

I mean who wouldn't trade Jankowski for Vasilevkiy right about now?

And to add to this, we should be keeping as many picks as possible to increase the probability of getting a player like Staal.

[bax]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It all comes back to a shortage of picks in the last couple drafts IMO. If you only have 3-4 picks in a draft you are going to be less likely to draft a goalie with one of those picks.

But yeah I was looking at the draft patterns for two teams that have kind of been NHL goalie factories in Washington and Nashville and their pattern in the past was that they were drafting a goalie per draft on average.

At the same time though it's not always the smartest to use draft capital on goalies. They are hard to predict, have long development times, and most often move teams before really breaking out as a goalie.

What the Flames have been been poor at doing is identifying what goalie to acquire at the pro level with strong pro scouting and have wasted assets on Smith/Elliott when better goalies were available.

Identifying these guys has been an issue for sure, but the cost also needs to be considered. I remember there was rumors that Tampa wanted our 1st for Bishop. We ended up taking Tkachuk.

Sure, Treliving would have solved the goaltending issue, but that deal would look terrible in hindsight.

[Jaydee]

Hopefully Brad is just starting a bidding war with Edmonton so they over pay on OEL. Doubt it though.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

BT should be fired if he does this.

Lots of teams looking to cut salary (incl Arizona) and won’t get full value. Surplus of goaltending options Which should drive down prices. Paying a premium for a 30 year old goalie Who hasn’t won squat with 2 years left on contract is incomprehensible Given the market.

I am not a fan of that deal either. I was listening to the Fan this morning and they were recapping the Friedman hit from yesterday discussing Keumper and Elliott and Steinberg seemed convinced that Keumper is at least getting a 1st.

I think that price is far too steep myself. I do wonder about the Flames trying to get the rights to Hall so they can make other moves with certainty at the draft.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It all comes back to a shortage of picks in the last couple drafts IMO. If you only have 3-4 picks in a draft you are going to be less likely to draft a goalie with one of those picks.

But yeah I was looking at the draft patterns for two teams that have kind of been NHL goalie factories in Washington and Nashville and their pattern in the past was that they were drafting a goalie per draft on average.

At the same time though it's not always the smartest to use draft capital on goalies. They are hard to predict, have long development times, and most often move teams before really breaking out as a goalie.

What the Flames have been been poor at doing is identifying what goalie to acquire at the pro level with strong pro scouting and have wasted assets on Smith/Elliott when better goalies were available.

I think as long as you're looking at this like it's a couple of year issue instead of a decade plus problem spread across 3 GMs, it will continually come as a surprise that the team doesn't have enough bodies.

Vasilevski is a 2012 pick.

Lehner is a 2009 pick.

Varlomov is a 2006 pick.

Khudobin is a 2004 pick.

[JurassicChamp]

Here's my thoughts.
First I think Treliving has done enough time and had talent. Has he made good moves sometimes yes. not sure who replaces him. I like Mark Hunter.
Next we need a veteran head coach that has a history of winning. Which is Gallant, or Laviolette. Laviolette is the better. Won the cup in Carolina, and took Nashville to the finals.
Do we want the goalie carousel to end? If so there 4 guys in UFAs. The rest will just continue the precision longer. Those 4 guys being Lehner, Markstrom, Holtby, and Talbot. It's Talbot we see as soon we have the head coach if not we only have 1 real option depends Vancouver and Vegas. Benning made the impression that he like to Markstrom and I think Vegas might do the same with Lehner. So that leaves Holtby or Veteran
starters/backups to mentor Rittich and hope he better his game. Also Remeber Kiprusoff had some bad games in his first few play games as well and had a bad game in game 6 against Vancouver. Yes we almost won that game in overtime. So I think Rittish still has work to do in his game and could end doing better.
Otherside we walk go the trade route. In this way there are alot of ones I think that work, Georgiev, Blackwood, Grabauer, Demko, Murray, Korpisalo, Andersen, and Mrazek.

I have already mention 1 of the 3 that I think will do in trade, that Being Korpisalo and the other 2 are Geogiev as well as Blackwood. Both the other are are RFAs. Also Merzlikins is getting paid more and expansion draft exempt
both the Ranger and Devils have needs down the middle for improvement. I prefer to trade with eastern conference.

After that we need a 4-6th defensemen. We do have many UFAs options.
And again we sign any of the 5 we have already to full this role. Any with for the right price I would like.At most I think 2 are needed otherwise we are using too many roster spots on defensemen.
Not going to mention who I like and what what price. too many and not enough time.

Last I think have 2-3 forwards that need filling. I like sign Reider myself.
Also we need shake in the core I feel. 1-2 core forwards

If we go the I think the we should it's go. I think Monahan is the way to go.

One problem I think we have is we are too small within our forwards.
And this trade does not help.

Monahan and a 3rd rounder from next year for Bratt, Blackwood and Boston's 4th this year. If we could get a Carrick added that be great too.
I don't think that be too hard and is I think this a reasonable deal.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It all comes back to a shortage of picks in the last couple drafts IMO. If you only have 3-4 picks in a draft you are going to be less likely to draft a goalie with one of those picks.

But yeah I was looking at the draft patterns for two teams that have kind of been NHL goalie factories in Washington and Nashville and their pattern in the past was that they were drafting a goalie per draft on average.

At the same time though it's not always the smartest to use draft capital on goalies. They are hard to predict, have long development times, and most often move teams before really breaking out as a goalie.

What the Flames have been been poor at doing is identifying what goalie to acquire at the pro level with strong pro scouting and have wasted assets on Smith/Elliott when better goalies were available.

How much of Nashville was drafting and how much was Mitch Korn?

The Flames used to draft a goalie every year it seemed and none of them planned out.

[GioforPM]

The other issue with drafting a lot of goalies is how many goalies your system can handle.