Should/Will the Flames keep Ward

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Do you guys really feel like the Flames are a piece or two away from contention, and that there's a legit, for real, window to win, right now?

Cuz I just don't see that. There's nice pieces here for sure, but the idea that a coach takes this team to the finals or something...

I remember Sutter coming under fire here last time he was coach for having such a deliberate, boring system, and he more or less said "Hey, I'd love to play a wide open game, but we just don't have the horses."

And that's where this team is at. Swapping Reider for Jankowski etc, guys other teams wouldn't claim on waivers. That's the depth here.

I strongly disagree. I think we have the horses but they are race horses and Ward uses them like clydesdales.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Do you guys really feel like the Flames are a piece or two away from contention, and that there's a legit, for real, window to win, right now?

Cuz I just don't see that. There's nice pieces here for sure, but the idea that a coach takes this team to the finals or something...

I remember Sutter coming under fire here last time he was coach for having such a deliberate, boring system, and he more or less said "Hey, I'd love to play a wide open game, but we just don't have the horses."

And that's where this team is at. Swapping Reider for Jankowski etc, guys other teams wouldn't claim on waivers. That's the depth here.

I absolutely think the Flames are a piece or two away from being legit contenders.

Problem is that those pieces are the hardest to acquire and even if they could acquire them they'd have a tough time fitting in under the cap without making a hole somewhere else in the line up.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Do you guys really feel like the Flames are a piece or two away from contention, and that there's a legit, for real, window to win, right now?

Cuz I just don't see that. There's nice pieces here for sure, but the idea that a coach takes this team to the finals or something...

I remember Sutter coming under fire here last time he was coach for having such a deliberate, boring system, and he more or less said "Hey, I'd love to play a wide open game, but we just don't have the horses."

And that's where this team is at. Swapping Reider for Jankowski etc, guys other teams wouldn't claim on waivers. That's the depth here.

11 seconds away from (likely) defeating a team that is in the Western Conference finals. Goaltending fell apart in the later part of the series as well.

Add in Kuemper and a better coach? I like where we are - but to get over this hump, we need a top end goalie and a top end coach.

[FlamesAddiction]

Was there even a noticeable difference after Ward took over? The team looked like the same inconsistent and mistake prone team since game one of 2019.

I am not saying Ward is the answer, but I don't think he tried to re-invent anything when he took over after Peters. There was too much invested at that point to change directions.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

11 seconds away from (likely) defeating a team that is in the Western Conference finals. Goaltending fell apart in the later part of the series as well.

Add in Kuemper and a better coach? I like where we are - but to get over this hump, we need a top end goalie and a top end coach.

Haha, I definitely called this after the Flames lost that series. Flames fans are just so content with mediocrity and accepting excuses.

Guess what? That same team who is in the conference finals beat the Flames 3 games in a row which included embarassing Calgary in the elimination game.

Dallas, Colorado and other teams are more than just a better HC and Goalie away from Calgary. They are a few miles ahead.

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I strongly disagree. I think we have the horses but they are race horses and Ward uses them like clydesdales.

I think we over value our horses, I think the fanbase here (and probably everywhere) sees good guys as elite and mediocre guys as good. Stars SECOND line center is Pavelski, who is better than our first line center. Come on.

We dredged two defensemen from... nowhere...right at the end of the season to play the third pairing. Our best shot at a third pair included Forbort. Not a call up, not a popcorn-guy waiting in the wings.

Dallas has an injury, and calls up a guy who punches in 3 goals in a game 7. Nice. Flames can bring in, uh.... Rinaldo.

The Flames top end isn't good enough, and the bottom end isn't good enough. They are deep, but mediocre through and through in that depth, and that's why better teams beat them year in and year out. Having 6 guys who can play center is great. But it would be even better if a couple were really, really good.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Haha, I definitely called this after the Flames lost that series. Flames fans are just so content with mediocrity and accepting excuses.

Guess what? That same team who is in the conference finals beat the Flames 3 games in a row which included embarassing Calgary in the elimination game.

Dallas, Colorado and other teams are more than just a better HC and Goalie away from Calgary. They are a few miles ahead.

Add in a top end goalie, where is this team?

Add in another top six forward like Tree has tried to acquire for years - where is this team?

Add in a better coach - where is this team?

These aren’t insignificant changes, but all possible this off-season. Nailing three moves is hardly impossible and entirely achievable if Tree can finally snap out of his two year cold streak.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Haha, I definitely called this after the Flames lost that series. Flames fans are just so content with mediocrity and accepting excuses.

Guess what? That same team who is in the conference finals beat the Flames 3 games in a row which included embarassing Calgary in the elimination game.

Dallas, Colorado and other teams are more than just a better HC and Goalie away from Calgary. They are a few miles ahead.

On the basis of a couple posts you "called it" and feel comfortable making a blanket statement like against all flames fans that they accept mediocrity?

With the variety of opinions on this site, you could predict anything and then on the basis of cherry picking a couple of posts say that you "called it".

Confirmation bias at its finest.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

On the basis of a couple posts you "called it" and feel comfortable making a blanket statement like against all flames fans that they accept mediocrity?

With the variety of opinions on this site, you could predict anything and then on the basis of cherry picking a couple of posts say that you "called it".

Confirmation bias at its finest.

Yup, most Flames fans are super okay with mediocrity its why the team hasn't done anything relevant in almost 16 years and we all continue to watch and pay money for stuff.

As for me calling it, I wasn't looking for any sort of recognition. Its just funny that I knew people were going to make dumb excuses for this team because of the "11 seconds"... and that is what people are doing.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Haha, I definitely called this after the Flames lost that series. Flames fans are just so content with mediocrity and accepting excuses.

Guess what? That same team who is in the conference finals beat the Flames 3 games in a row which included embarassing Calgary in the elimination game.

Dallas, Colorado and other teams are more than just a better HC and Goalie away from Calgary. They are a few miles ahead.

IDK Calgary dominated every metric of that game except goal tending...its not a homer take natural statrick tells the tale. Nobody wins when every 3rd shot goes in.

Calgary allowed 7 high danger chances in that game and got scored on 7 times lol

A coach, goalie, and a few shrewd roster moves could certainly have them in the convo

That is three major changes, hardly accepting mediocrity

Jets in 3
Jets in 4
Jets in 5
Stars in 4
Stars in 5
Stars in 6 (Ha, called it! Told you so losers)

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Yup, most Flames fans are super okay with mediocrity its why the team hasn't done anything relevant in almost 16 years and we all continue to watch and pay money for stuff.

As for me calling it, I wasn't looking for any sort of recognition. Its just funny that I knew people were going to make dumb excuses for this team because of the "11 seconds"... and that is what people are doing.

We watch and pay money for it because we enjoy it.
Doesn't mean fans are "super ok with medicority". Clearly people are frustrated. But if they aren't going to stop watching, because they still enjoy it, that's up to them.

[Strange Brew]

I feel like a lot of playoff series can tilt on a few key plays. By outplaying your opponent you increase your odds of getting more cracks at it.

The Flames are 4 and 16 in the playoffs since beating Vancouver, yet you can look at each of those series and find reasons why they should have been closer.

I guess the record just speaks for itself at this point. They lost to good teams but at least until this year, none of those teams were good enough to get out of the West.

So I’d say the gap is pretty wide. Big enough to be closed by a star center, a star goalie and an accomplished coach? That would put them in the mix I’d think. Add Trotz, Mackinnon and Vasilevskiy to this roster and we’d be a favorite.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Yup, most Flames fans are super okay with mediocrity its why the team hasn't done anything relevant in almost 16 years and we all continue to watch and pay money for stuff.

As for me calling it, I wasn't looking for any sort of recognition. Its just funny that I knew people were going to make dumb excuses for this team because of the "11 seconds"... and that is what people are doing.

Well, I think you’re being dismissive in saying I’m making dumb excuses given that I’m saying the team needs some pretty significant changes.

How is saying this team needs a new coach, a new (better goalie) making excuses? Those are pretty significant changes to the team as it stands and would mark a pretty busy off-season. Not to mention the massive turnover the defence is going through due to contracts expiring. What kind of changes do you envision in a single summer?

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I feel like a lot of playoff series can tilt on a few key plays. By outplaying your opponent you increase your odds of getting more cracks at it.

The Flames are 4 and 16 in the playoffs since beating Vancouver, yet you can look at each of those series and find reasons why they should have been closer.

I guess the record just speaks for itself at this point. They lost to good teams but at least until this year, none of those teams were good enough to get out of the West.

So I’d say the gap is pretty wide. Big enough to be closed by a star center, a star goalie and an accomplished coach? That would put them in the mix I’d think. Add Trotz, Mackinnon and Vasilevskiy to this roster and we’d be a favorite.

Make it so!

[TheSquatch]

It's not the fans who are okay with mediocrity, it's the ownership.

The mandate hasn't changed through 4 GMs and 7 coaches.

The mandate is "Be pretty good, make the playoffs, and let's see what happens."

That's not the mandate of a club that actually wants to win it all.

Flames made the playoffs. Therefore Tre is back and Ward is back, is my guess.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

It's not the fans who are okay with mediocrity, it's the ownership.



The mandate hasn't changed through 4 GMs and 7 coaches.



The mandate is "Be pretty good, make the playoffs, and let's see what happens."



That's not the mandate of a club that actually wants to win it all.



Flames made the playoffs. Therefore Tre is back and Ward is back, is my guess.

I very much doubt that this is the mandate from ownership. More than likely these guys want the Flames to win more than any of us.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Call it what you want. I could have chosen a different phrase if I knew you wouldn’t like it but the point still stands

There has been that same asterisk with each of his hand selected hires

Neither guy had been successful as a head coach as a NHL head coach. Both had been head coaches, but not with any material success

So Tre has to think that something will be different with his roster plus coach X

Why would Treliving think that they could be successful with his team?

That is somewhat of a ‘smartest guy in the room’ problem, isn’t it? Kind of like the Jankowski draft? You see something that other people don’t see and are willing to stake some of your professional results on it

I don’t apologize for using that phrase, but welcome suggested alternatives

Thought I was pretty clear.

If you don't think Treliving is up to making the decision he shouldn't be making it.

If you allow him to make the decision he should go with who he thinks would do the best job, without limiting the field based on some filter that keeps him from doing what he feels he should do.

Nowhere in that have I defended his previous coaching hires.

[dammage79]

This is officially now Trees last kick at the coaching can, I thought Peters was it but I think Peters' past bought Tree a get out of jail card.


The GM of the Flames absolutely has to get this specific off season right. His job depends on it.

I honestly think they're bringing in a new coaching team top to bottom.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by dammage79

This is officially now Trees last kick at the coaching can, I thought Peters was it but I think Peters' past bought Tree a get out of jail card.


The GM of the Flames absolutely has to get this specific off season right. His job depends on it.

I honestly think they're bringing in a new coaching team top to bottom.

I hope so. I am ok if Ward steps back to assistant but I have always made it clear I am not a fan of Huska at all. Siglet needs to go too.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I very much doubt that this is the mandate from ownership. More than likely these guys want the Flames to win more than any of us.

Yeah you don't spend to the cap and buy out players if you are ok with mediocrity.

Wining is hard. Very very hard.

Treliving has a cost controlled core that isn't getting it done. He now has to decide what % of that is a missing piece (maybe goaltending), what % is coaching in the last two years, and what % is the need to change the core, alter the chemistry, or shift strengths on the roster from one area to another.

Choosing a route that is different than joe hockey fan doesn't mean the management group or ownership are happy with mediocrity. It just means they have a differing view that you.