2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah, one major commonality between the competing teams left right now is that they all have a young, talented, offensive blue liner that drives play from the back end.
Col: Makar
Van: Hughes
Dal: Heiskanen
VGK: Theodore
NYI: Pulock
Flyers: Provorov/sanheim
TB: hedman/sergachev

We do not have one. Maybe Valimaki but we have to hope injuries haven't set him back too much.
Gios decline hurt us pretty bad.

IMO this is the last of the worries of roster construction that Calgary has. Valimaki, Hanifin, Andersson and Kylington all have a tonne of talent. Developing that talent is the responsibility of the coaching staff. Finding the right coach is going to make or break this team.

Rinaldo, Jankowski, and Reider all playing 10 minutes a game last season, was 10 minutes when the Flames were fielding an AHL club. Figuring out only in the post season that Bennett is a centre is enough to get Ward fired, also IMO. And yes, that was a major failing of Peters and GG, as well.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

IMO this is the last of the worries of roster construction that Calgary has. Valimaki, Hanifin, Andersson and Kylington all have a tonne of talent. Developing that talent is the responsibility of the coaching staff. Finding the right coach is going to make or break this team.

Rinaldo, Jankowski, and Reider all playing 10 minutes a game last season, was 10 minutes when the Flames were fielding an AHL club. Figuring out only in the post season that Bennett is a centre is enough to get Ward fired, also IMO. And yes, that was a major failing of Peters and GG, as well.

And Sam Bennett.

[sureLoss]

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Sources say the Arizona Coyotes are expected to make another pitch today to keep star forward Taylor Hall off the market.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Sources say the Arizona Coyotes are expected to make another pitch today to keep star forward Taylor Hall off the market.

I can’t imagine he signs there. He wants to win, and they just lost a 2nd and 1st rounder for zilch after already not being a playoff team with Hall.

[prizefighterinferno]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Sources say the Arizona Coyotes are expected to make another pitch today to keep star forward Taylor Hall off the market.

With their recent draft pick punishment, rumoured impending tear-down and Hall's stated desire to go somewhere he has a chance to compete....I just don't see it happening.

[Toonage]

I wonder if some team has approached them about getting his rights and this is their final attempt to see if he can be retained?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

IMO this is the last of the worries of roster construction that Calgary has. Valimaki, Hanifin, Andersson and Kylington all have a tonne of talent. Developing that talent is the responsibility of the coaching staff. Finding the right coach is going to make or break this team.

Rinaldo, Jankowski, and Reider all playing 10 minutes a game last season, was 10 minutes when the Flames were fielding an AHL club. Figuring out only in the post season that Bennett is a centre is enough to get Ward fired, also IMO. And yes, that was a major failing of Peters and GG, as well.

Originally Posted by Yoho

And Sam Bennett.

Maybe during the interview process the manager should ask the coach about playing Bennett at C?

Feels like scapegoating to say we love chocolate cake but the chefs we keep hiring refuse to make it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I wonder if some team has approached them about getting his rights and this is their final attempt to see if he can be retained?

Or negotiating through the media to up the rights pricing.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I wonder if some team has approached them about getting his rights and this is their final attempt to see if he can be retained?

I have to imagine they will be looking to get any sort of draft pick compensation for his rights given they don't have a pick until the 4th round of the 2020 draft.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I have to imagine they will be looking to get any sort of draft pick compensation for his rights given they don't have a pick until the 4th round of the 2020 draft.

Yep I'd imagine this is exactly whats happening.
Last ditch effort to see if they can do anything to keep him (outside of paying him 10M x 8) I don't see him signing.
Then try and trade his rights for a 2nd or 3rd most likely.


In other news, took a stroll down CapFriendly ArmchairGM and my god I've never cringed so hard at what people think their players are worth.

Damon Severson is apparently the 2nd coming of Lidstrom and worth more than Gaudreau and our 1st.

Johnny to Boston for Trent Frederic, Beecher and a 2021 1st and 2022 2nd. Oh and we're retaining 1.75M

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

IMO this is the last of the worries of roster construction that Calgary has. Valimaki, Hanifin, Andersson and Kylington all have a tonne of talent. Developing that talent is the responsibility of the coaching staff. Finding the right coach is going to make or break this team.

Rinaldo, Jankowski, and Reider all playing 10 minutes a game last season, was 10 minutes when the Flames were fielding an AHL club. Figuring out only in the post season that Bennett is a centre is enough to get Ward fired, also IMO. And yes, that was a major failing of Peters and GG, as well.

Yeah, Andersson definitely has the potential, he just hasn't quite shown it consistently yet. Valimaki hasn't had the chance.

Fox would have been pretty amazing to keep around. Too bad he wasn't interested.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah, Andersson definitely has the potential, he just hasn't quite shown it consistently yet. Valimaki hasn't had the chance.

Fox would have been pretty amazing to keep around. Too bad he wasn't interested.

Fox hurts for sure, because he'd be a 2nd pair right shooting offensive Dman who is expansion draft exempt.

One of the three most important missing pieces from the roster (#1C & #1G being the other two) and we wouldn't even have to use a protection slot on him.

A real kick in the nuts.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Do you ever ask yourself what those teams did during the preceding time frame or are you content to view this as non linear progression and call it a day?

Anaheim made 4 top 10 picks, drafted twice in the first round in 2003 and then moved 2 of their top 10 picks plus another first rounder for maybe the best player in the league at the time. 4 picks in the first three rounds in back to back years.

The canes made 3 top 5 picks in a row. Their highest pick scored 28 points in 25 playoff games the year they won.

Washington drafted in the first round every year save one. They drafted 6 times in the 2nd round over that time. Washington just payed that forward by moving a 2013 first round pick for a 2nd and a 3rd. That's the Monahan draft.

These teams you're using as examples for core groups turning things around aren't actually doing that. You're describing teams building new core groups and a team in Washington that continued to draft frequently.

The flames aren't comparable to either group because they aren't drafting with the necessary regularity, but when they do they are walking away with players like Rasmus, Dube Valimaki and Tkachuk.

The solution couldn't be more stark.

No, I never do, I simply wait for you to explain the world to me. Do you see how much of an asshat you are and do it on purpose, or does it just come naturally to you and you are unaware of it?

The two premises that you appear to be working on with your post seem to be: 1) that those teams built new core groups - but they didn't, they continued to add to, and refine, the core groups they had; and 2) that the Flames are going to remain stagnant with the current core and simply HOPE that it will work next year.

No one is suggesting we should stick with the team, as is. I have not seen a single poster suggest that.

The central issue is that they have a core that is mostly in its prime, with several key players on good contracts. So they either 1) continue to build on that (which is what every team would do), or 2) tear it down, which is what fans will often desire. But it isn't going to happen.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JTech780

5v5 Playoff Points:

Johnny Gaudreau 4 points in 30 games
Sean Monahan 4 points in 30 games
Elias Lindholm 2 points in 15 games
Matthew Tkachuk 3 points in 15 games
Mikael Backlund 5 points in 30 games

This core isn't getting the job done when the games matter most. I know it won't happen, but if this team wants to win a Cup they need to find a new core group of players.

I know it's not a fair comparison because MacKinnon is probably the best player in the game but he has 26 points at 5v5 in 38 career playoff games. Ryan O'Reilly had 16 5v5 points in 26 games last year on the way to winning a Cup.

To me it shows that the top players on this team aren't even coming close to being good enough.

The core certainly hasn't gotten it done to date.

One thing I continue to find amazing is how much of a pass Lindholm has gotten for that fact. In these past 10 games, I can't think of ANY instances where he was effective in the offensive zone.

I know that he had personal issues, and I give him a pass for that. My point is: I think people are putting too much of the blame on Gaudreau. I saw lots of compete from Gaudreau, but the line was completely ineffective.

I think they would have looked a lot better with Toffoli on the line, retrieving pucks and going to the front of the net, than what they had.

You try to find a way to make your core players effective and successful before you throw in the towel and start over.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Ryan O'Reilly had 16 5v5 points in 26 games last year on the way to winning a Cup.

To me it shows that the top players on this team aren't even coming close to being good enough.

A bit cherry-picky. ROR had 3 5v5 points in 13 playoff games prior to that run. You've also omitted our own playoff points leader, Sam Bennett has 10 5v5 points in 30 playoff games so far.

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, just wanted to get all the information out there.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, I never do, I simply wait for you to explain the world to me. Do you see how much of an asshat you are and do it on purpose, or does it just come naturally to you and you are unaware of it?

The two premises that you appear to be working on with your post seem to be: 1) that those teams built new core groups - but they didn't, they continued to add to, and refine, the core groups they had; and 2) that the Flames are going to remain stagnant with the current core and simply HOPE that it will work next year.

In a single year the Ducks added Pronger and Neidermayer, Getzlaf, Perry, Penner...Only 2 of Anaheim's top 10 scorers that year were with the team even 2 seasons prior.

What you are saying is objectively not true. It's a complete fabrication to say anaheim was adding to their core group because otherwise Kariya would've handed the cup to Sergei Fedorov and neither guy was with the team. Anaheim had completely dismantled the roster that went to the final in 02-03.

If you're going to respond to well researched and thought out arguments by grasping at straws and ultimately twisting them to try to counter those arguments, you're going to be met with sarcastic derision because that's what a post like that deserves.

I am very specifically an asshat to you because you are very specifically asking for it when you say dumb things with absurdist routine, but maybe it's just time for the ignore list.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

In a single year the Ducks added Pronger and Neidermayer, Getzlaf, Perry, Penner...Only 2 of Anaheim's top 10 scorers that year were with the team even 2 seasons prior.

What you are saying is objectively not true. It's a complete fabrication to say anaheim was adding to their core group because otherwise Kariya would've handed the cup to Sergei Fedorov and neither guy was with the team. Anaheim had completely dismantled the roster that went to the final in 02-03.

If you're going to respond to well researched and thought out arguments by grasping at straws and ultimately twisting them to try to counter those arguments, you're going to be met with sarcastic derision because that's what a post like that deserves.

I am very specifically an asshat to you because you are very specifically asking for it when you say dumb things with absurdist routine, but maybe it's just time for the ignore list.

lol

The problem you have is that I challenge your ridiculous absolutions. So you look to discredit me with insults. Pathetic, but not surprising.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You try to find a way to make your core players effective and successful before you throw in the towel and start over.

At 37, Gio isn't getting more effective.

Gaudreau and Monahan have not gotten more effective, though three coaches have desperately tried to coax better overall games out of them.

We could give it a try for a couple more seasons. But if it still isn't working, the declining value of the core pieces means you're looking at a full, scorched-earth teardown at that point.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

At 37, Gio isn't getting more effective.

Gaudreau and Monahan have not gotten more effective, though three coaches have desperately tried to coax better overall games out of them.

We could give it a try for a couple more seasons. But if it still isn't working, the declining value of the core pieces means you're looking at a full, scorched-earth teardown at that point.

Regarding Giordano, he, and to a lesser extent Backlund, are running out of time, which is another point in the 'window is now' argument.

Regarding Gaudreau and Monahan, that is one of the primary debates regarding the Flames: yes, they have been unsuccessful through 3 coaches, but were any of those coaches good? More importantly though, the question has to be asked by management: are Gaudreau and Monahan incapable of playoff success, or have they simply not found a formula that works yet? I think it's the latter, personally.

Tearing it all down is a huge, long term decision for any franchise. And every organization will look to add and tinker, over and over, before they go ahead and hit the eject button.

I agree with you though, on 'a couple more seasons'. At most. As a fan, I would be in favour of a tear down now, but I can't see management doing that, and I understand their view, which is why I try to present it here for discussion. But for me as a fan, if we don't see results - and more entertaining hockey - soon, I will be joining the pitchfork mobs in pretty short order.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Regarding Giordano, he, and to a lesser extent Backlund, are running out of time, which is another point in the 'window is now' argument.

Regarding Gaudreau and Monahan, that is one of the primary debates regarding the Flames: yes, they have been unsuccessful through 3 coaches, but were any of those coaches good? More importantly though, the question has to be asked by management: are Gaudreau and Monahan incapable of playoff success, or have they simply not found a formula that works yet? I think it's the latter, personally.

Tearing it all down is a huge, long term decision for any franchise. And every organization will look to add and tinker, over and over, before they go ahead and hit the eject button.

I agree with you though, on 'a couple more seasons'. At most. As a fan, I would be in favour of a tear down now, but I can't see management doing that, and I understand their view, which is why I try to present it here for discussion. But for me as a fan, if we don't see results - and more entertaining hockey - soon, I will be joining the pitchfork mobs in pretty short order.

I thought you wanted a rebuild after the season ended?

Do you still feel that way and are just resigned to the probability that the Flames would never go that route at this time?