Ring Road To Nowhere

[vegasbound]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

It wouldn't surprise me either way if volume dropped on 14th or if it didn't really at all.

Like Weitz, I may never touch 14th again especially on my regular commute, but I'm not commuting downtown so going slightly West isn't too far out of my way. At the same time there's still a pretty significant population that surrounds 14th and may view the ring road as too far out of their way.

All I know is I go from Currie Barracks to Bridlewood on a regular basis. I will gladly jog over a little west to the SWRR, even if its also not open to 162 Ave. Anything to avoid 14th.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I disagree with the "induced demand" theory. Driving from SW (south of Southland) to NW has been atrocious forever. People try avoiding 14th-Glenmore-Crowchild gridlock and choose Deerfoot to get to Northwest and North Central even though it adds 10km to the trip. With new SW communities (Providence, Silverado, Sirocco, Yorkville, Belmont etc.) adding 50,000+ new homes in the next 20-30 years, the SW portion of the RR will provide the much anticipated travel alternative and, in turn, this will actually relieve Deerfoot volumes.

Those 50,000 homes become desirable as a result of this road change. More or less that is describing the induced demand. As a result of the ring road reducing commuting time it moves the acceptable commuting distance further out and so the roadway fills back up.

I’m the absense of road construction you would see more densification as property values rose in the acceptable commenting area.

[Swift]

As someone who lives in Canyon Meadows, I'm thinking the only time I'd still take 14th is if I'm going up to the Crowchild area. Seems like that would still be the quicker way.

[bob-loblaw]

Originally Posted by Acey

Yeah I dunno. East freeway was sold as a CANAMEX bypass and it continues to function as that. I 100% guarantee SWRR will serve as a better bypass for intra-city trips than Stoney SE as a bypass for Deerfoot, which was never its purpose. Shouldn't be too difficult to prove. The dynamics of the traffic flow are so different than on the east side of the city, there's zero comparisons that can be made.

Stoney on the east should be used by truckers, but when used to get on Deerfoot northbound after 9:00 AM, I can't tell you the number of times I was stuck behind wide loads and house movers. I don't understand why they can't use the east freeway, unless the exit from NB Deerfoot to EB Stoney is too low or narrow. I can't see the east freeway's overpasses being lower than Deerfoot's.

[bob-loblaw]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

Will there be sufficient access for large trucks/semis off the SW ring road going to/from the new Costco that opens tomorrow? I noticed they didn't put diesel in their gas station but the Easthills one off the SE ring road has diesel so maybe they're thinking access getting in/out will be limited to regular size vehicles

That's a shame there won't be diesel. My buddy who lives in Evergreen is going to be devastated.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by keratosis

I believe they have too. Otherwise the land reverts back to Band control.

I think I posted this months ago, but it's crazy how close we may have come to that happening if the pandemic had been majorly-moderately worse here. I wonder if there was any force majeure clause?

Or what if we had another flood like 2013 and it washed away most of the construction one of these last two years?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by bob-loblaw

Stoney on the east should be used by truckers, but when used to get on Deerfoot northbound after 9:00 AM, I can't tell you the number of times I was stuck behind wide loads and house movers. I don't understand why they can't use the east freeway, unless the exit from NB Deerfoot to EB Stoney is too low or narrow. I can't see the east freeway's overpasses being lower than Deerfoot's.

Stoney SE spec I believe is bridge minimum 5.51 m signed as 5.4 m. I don't think anything is actually that low; exit ramp NB Deerfoot to EB Stoney is signed 5.7. By memory Deerfoot has a few signed at 5.1 m. Neither is officially a high-load corridor.

[lazypucker]

Originally Posted by GGG

2024 for whole thing
Oct 2021 for SW to Glenmore
Oct 2020 Anderson to Glenmore

What's the difference between SW to Glenmore and Anderson to Glenmore?

And by XXX to Glenmore, does it mean the part that connects to Sarcee will be good to go by Oct 2020 (2 months from now!?), but the West of it (69 St, HWY8, etc.) will still be undone until 2024?

Also for the HWY8 construction, will 101 St be accessible for all directions after everything is complete?

More questions - the Herald article Acey quoted https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...oad-completion says that the last part of the construction will be Old Banff to HWY 8, but how about 16 Ave / HWY 1 uphill to Old Banff? When will that be done and ready to roll?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I think I posted this months ago, but it's crazy how close we may have come to that happening if the pandemic had been majorly-moderately worse here. I wonder if there was any force majeure clause?

Or what if we had another flood like 2013 and it washed away most of the construction one of these last two years?

Final date for the Tsuu T'ina Nation (TTN) section is May 15, 2022. So it wasn't really close. They have... everything covered, needless to say. Long story short, Alberta gives TTN a heads up and gets an extension if poop were to hit the fan.

Construction of Opening Day Plan – Alberta will, at its own expense, build and commence operation of the Opening Day Plan within seven years from the Transfer Date [May 15, 2015], subject to any delay caused directly or indirectly by conditions beyond the reasonable control of Alberta including but not limited to acts of God, fires, floods, wind storms, explosions, unexploded ordnance, riots, natural disasters, wars, invasions, armed conflict, acts of foreign enemies, revolution, terrorist act, interference by military authorities, nuclear explosion, contamination by ionizing radiation, epidemics, quarantine restrictions, sabotage, civil disturbance, blockage, embargo, strikes, inability to obtain power or material, court injunction or order, federal environmental approvals, federal restrictions, Nation restrictions, disturbance of burial sites and delays arising from steps taken in accordance with the Burial Site Protocol in Schedule 10, provided that written notice of the delay (including the anticipated duration of the delay) is provided by Alberta to the Nation within 60 days of such delay, in which case the seven year period will be extended by the actual duration of any such delay.

That relates to Alberta's deal with TTN. There are similar parameters in the deal between Alberta and KGL, the road builders.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

What's the difference between SW to Glenmore and Anderson to Glenmore?

And by XXX to Glenmore, does it mean the part that connects to Sarcee will be good to go by Oct 2020 (2 months from now!?), but the West of it (69 St, HWY8, etc.) will still be undone until 2024?

Also for the HWY8 construction, will 101 St be accessible for all directions after everything is complete?

More questions - the Herald article Acey quoted https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...oad-completion says that the last part of the construction will be Old Banff to HWY 8, but how about 16 Ave / HWY 1 uphill to Old Banff? When will that be done and ready to roll?

Alright so the west leg has been split into 2 parts, the north and the south project. Everything north of Old Banff is the north project and they're already far into that - my understanding is that all of this work is still on track to be done by 2022. The south part, Old Banff down to Highway 8, is embroiled in the Enmax thing which I think ultimately impacts 101 St and I therefore have no idea what's going on with that.

So to clarify here's what's opening and when:

- Oct 1, 2020: Glenmore upgrades including new Glenmore/37 St interchange, and new 8-lane Stoney/Tsuut'ina Trail from Glenmore down to Fish Creek Blvd/146 Ave

- Oct 1, 2021: New 6 to 8-lane Stoney Tr from Fish Creek Blvd down to 22X and the upgrade/rebuilding of 22X over to Macleod, new 22X/Macleod interchange, plus new Glenmore/69 St interchange. But because 69 St interchange is so close to other stuff that is due in a few weeks, they're pretty much done 69 St

- Some time in 2022: Rebuild of Trans-Canada from Old Banff Coach Road out near Springbank Airport into the city, new 16 Ave NW/Stoney interchange, new Stoney Trail from 16 Ave NW down to Old Banff Coach Road, new twinned Stoney Trail bridge over the Bow River north of COP (that's what you see three big cranes hanging over Stoney for right now), and a minor upgrade to the existing Stoney/Crowchild/Tuscany Blvd/Scenic Acres Link complex; there will now be a single westbound exit for access to all 3 of those

- 2024 but hopefully sooner: final bit of new 6 to 8-lane Stoney Trail from Old Banff Coach Road down to Highway 8, completing the ring

I'm making another map right now cause it's confusing. The west leg construction team has been doing detailed updates of the work they're doing over by COP, perhaps interesting to follow along as that is maybe the 2nd most complex interchange Alberta has ever built (Edmonton wins, unfortunately)

[Acey]

Map. Spoiler for size.

Spoiler!

[zarrell]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The bigger relief on 14th will be if the ####ing construction on the road ever lets up.

If that isn't the biggest waste of money on roads in this city, I don't know what is. They've been working on this for 5+ years and all we have to show is the same amount of lanes, no overpasses and a dedicated bus lane? Why even bother?

[Muffins]

Originally Posted by zarrell

If that isn't the biggest waste of money on roads in this city, I don't know what is. They've been working on this for 5+ years and all we have to show is the same amount of lanes, no overpasses and a dedicated bus lane? Why even bother?

To be faaaaaaiiir, it's also a utility corridor and part of that work was to replace some old lines.

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by Acey

Map. Spoiler for size.

Spoiler!

I don’t get the delay on the pink section. Seems like it’s getting pretty close to being ready and will end up sitting idle for quite a while

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Brendone

I don’t get the delay on the pink section. Seems like it’s getting pretty close to being ready and will end up sitting idle for quite a while

It was split to make sure the time-critical Tsuu'tina section was completed first. It won't sit idle... if they're done early it will open early and the contract adjusted accordingly.

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by Acey

It was split to make sure the time-critical Tsuu'tina section was completed first. It won't sit idle... if they're done early it will open early and the contract adjusted accordingly.

That makes sense, thanks.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Muffins

To be faaaaaaiiir, it's also a utility corridor and part of that work was to replace some old lines.

Most of the work was utilities.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Acey

Some time in 2022: Rebuild of Trans-Canada from Old Banff Coach Road out near Springbank Airport into the city,

Heh, just when it seemed like Trans-Canada was finally smooth sailing out of the city.

Acey, I heard a rumour that there is/was consideration to fully build out HWY 8 as a divided highway all the way to highway 22 & TCH where they would totally redo that disaster of an interchange (which they have recently been at least trying to improve). Once done, they would even consider re-designating Glenmore Trail/HWY 8 as the 'Trans-Canada Highway' - though I'm not sure what that would mean on the east side of the city. It sounded like a 20+ year kind of vision - ever heard similar?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Heh, just when it seemed like Trans-Canada was finally smooth sailing out of the city.

Acey, I heard a rumour that there is/was consideration to fully build out HWY 8 as a divided highway all the way to highway 22 & TCH where they would totally redo that disaster of an interchange (which they have recently been at least trying to improve). Once done, they would even consider re-designating Glenmore Trail/HWY 8 as the 'Trans-Canada Highway' - though I'm not sure what that would mean on the east side of the city. It sounded like a 20+ year kind of vision - ever heard similar?

Yeah the Trans-Canada rebuild is weird in that you're building an 8-lane mega-freeway out to Old Banff Coach, then it will crunch right back down to the existing 4 lanes and you end up with the same problem on weekends. More importantly though, they're levelling out the peaks and valleys of that section to make it safer from a sightline persepctive.

Stantec did a study for a full rebuild of the Highway 1/22 interchange. The plans are for a big complex, like the big interchanges on Stoney now. That document is here.

There are plans to twin Highway 8 all the way out to Highway 22 and build an interchange at Highway 22, as there are plans to twin Highway 22 from Highway 8 to Cochrane. At this point Alberta Transportation has done planning or a study for pretty much everything, it's just a matter of finding money. Kinda tapped out after 10 billion bucks on 2 world class ring roads, then hwy 63 twinning, 43 twinning, on and on...

Don't recall seeing anything about Highway 8 re-designated as the Trans-Canada.

[Old Yeller]

11 years later, we may actually have to change this thread title soon.